Prime Chuck Liddel vs Prime Anderson Silva @205

Who takes it ?

 

Anderson's ranginess would cause Chuck some problems and Chuck was very prone to being outstruck. That said, Chuck had astonishing one punch power in both hands, and could certainly put Silva away if he landed. The Guy Mezger fight was essentially in this mold, Chuck being soundly outstruck by a world class Karateka only to ambush Guy in the 2nd and take him out. Prime Chuck's rock solid chin would be a good service to him here. Another dimension of the fight is that, although I could see Chuck being frustrated on the feet, in his prime he was very hesitant to take guys with an active guard down, especially with Anderson's long limbs, simply because he hadn't the training he had when he was shot.

This fight has to be looked at Chuck's typical tendencies against strikers, against grapplers he preferred to counterstrike and land a big punch, against strikers however you'd see a much more diversified attack, including kicks and an aggressive stalking game. This would play into Anderson's style, but it would be interest if they both decided to counter, in this case I still think Chuck would be the first to engage, as Anderson at times has proven that he will outright refuse to if doesn't want/need to.

Despite Chuck's chin, Anderson has proven to be one of, if not the best finisher in MMA history when he has a guy hurt, and Chuck even at his best, only had cardio for 10 minutes. I think if the almost inevitable moment of Chuck's wild and sloppy striking gets him cracked. Anderson I believe is just to complex and elusive for Chuck to find a home for a huge punch, and Anderson stops a fading Chuck in the 3rd after timing him with a straight punch, then delivering a fight ending volley of strikes and knees.

 

Rampage knocked Chuck out in his prime despite that cast iron chin. I think Silva wouldn't hit him as hard, but far too often and would stop Chuck inside 2 rounds.

 

I wouldn't consider that 36/37 year old version of Chuck to be in his prime. He wasn't shot yet, but he was a on the down end of his career. He took some bombs earlier in his career, especially in the Guy Mezger fight and the Overeem fight. Both fights he was getting fucked up in PRIDE and stunned them and swarmed than laid them out flat with one punch.

I think when he fought Rampage, not only was he old, but partying and using drugs as well. Still, Rampage kicked his ass in his prime in PRIDE, but he didn't KO him.

 

The only example of Chuck's cardio was when he made Jeremy Horn quit in the 4th. For the 3rd time ever, I agree with you. Twice today

 

:kick:

To? Too? Two?:dunno:

 

I feel that although Silva is vastly more varied and multi-dimensional as compared to Chuck, ....Liddell was too big and strong in his prime. My pick is Chuck by KO inside of 2.

 

OK, personally I think Chuck was still in top form when Rampage starched him in the UFC. I mean he had won 7 straight, hadn't lost in 4 years, and just drilled Tito. Nevertheless, I will concede Chuck was out of his prime.

So replace Jackson with Couture. If Couture could stop him, then I'm sure Silva would. Better?

Unless of course you now deem a 32 year old Liddell out of his prime. If so, then he's amazing because he did some incredible things after his prime.

::

 

As I play this out in my mind, I really don't see Chuck ever getting close enough to Anderson. He never utilized a jab. Anderson is just way to technical of a striker for Chuck. Anderson would literally pick him apart landing jabs at will and ease. I honestly see it playing out to what we watched just recently with GSP picking Koschek apart.

 

Anderson would KO him easily

 

Chuck was beating fighters when stand up wasn't really the center of things. Silva would pick him apart

 

I disagree. MMA had tons of talented strikers, moreso than now actually, because MMA still had a lot of one dimensional kickboxers and such. They weren't well rounded strikers, but Chuck stood with all of his biggest striking adversaries.

He stood with Vitor and rocked him and won a decision, he stood with world champion Karate fighter Guy Mezger and came back in the second to knock him out with one punch. Came back against Alistair after taking a beating early to rock him and knock him out with one punch. And won a tough fight with Amar Suloev.

All of those guys were very talented strikers no questions asked. Chuck just had that kind of power, probably the hardest puncher at LHW ever.

 

I think Randy had a good night that night and Chuck didn't. Chuck gassed out and got stopped from ground and pound. A lot of people say Chuck underestimated Randy and undertrained, nevertheless, he beat the shit out of Randy in the next two fights, so we all know who the better fighter was.

I don't think it is relevant anyway, Silva isn't going to turn the fight into a clinch fight and certainly isn't going to slam him down, pass to mount and stop him with strikes.

 

Silva is the far better fighter. Period. There is no way I could pick Chuck to beat Silva, prime for prime or otherwise. He's just on another level as far as striking goes. Chuck could land a bomb and KO him, but that is not something I would depend on happening. I would have to favor Silva.

 

Seriously, could you imagine Chuck trying to land that lead uppercut he throws from 4' away on Anderson? Good Lord. Anderson would have a field day.

 

MMA had guys who COULD strike, but they werent strikers

There is a big influx of people who realize now they need actual boxing training (fighters are going to roach now) aside from having a guy who knew minimal stuff helping out at an MMA camp

A really good example of this is when shogun ko'd chuck. MMA fighters till this day cant grasp the concept of punching through some one when a fighter is going backward. Chuck got by without having to deal with this, next thing you know hes going straight backward as always and gets clipped by some one with actual stand up

Metzger has 0 notable striking skills. And yes, overreem did eventually gas and get caught, but prior to that he too was roughing up chuck pretty good

And going back to the pride days Rampage beat him from piller to post standing.

Hell, couture even out stuck chuck in their first fight. Out stuck by a wrestler?

Chuck stood with everyone because he couldnt do anything else, he never could and he still cant. And all of these guys fell into his trap because MMA fighters dont effectively use angles or cut off the ring. So its easy to make some one chase after you and clip them with counter punches

 

Yeah, I don't see it going well for Chuck, even a prime Chuck.

 

Great post. The last paragraph I did have a slight issue with. when you said Chuck couldn't do anything else. Guys stood with Chuck because for the most part, most couldn't take him down. Chuck had unreal takedown defense and if by chance you did take him down, his escape skills and getting back to his feet were practically unparalleled. Chuck was a collegiate wrestler, who really didn't use his wrestling in the traditional lets take them down and try to Ground and Pound. He used it as a defensive base. Besides his power, easily one of his top skills.

I loved what you said about Metzger. This was a guy who tried to take tournament Karate and adapt to MMA. He was never a skilled striker in MMA. Overeem was gassing because he was cutting waaaay too hard to make 205. HW is much better for him.

Not sure how much you follow Mike, but check out Gegard Mousasi. He has a decent amatuer boxing career. He is one that has actually started to use boxing angles in his standup. I actually thought GSP used some nice basic boxing skills in this last fight against Koschek. If I am not mistaken, he trained with Roach as you previously mentioned.

 

Ok you know what
your 200% right about that, people struck with chuck cause no one could take him down

And there is a point where some people just tried to strike with him out of spite, but as sup par strikers thats no good

And i boxed and did MMA for a good portion of my life. And still follow them very closely as a i have a bunch of friends who are still active


Gegard has always impressed me with his boxing base. Although its limited its still better then most.

GSP is just on different level from all the guys, he did train with roach and because he picks up on thing so well you can easily it reflected in how in stand up vs kosh

 

He trained with him for 2 days, it's grossly overstated.

I watched the fight with Overeem and he hardly seemed gassed, he got hit by one of Chucks retard overhand rights then wilted and got KO'd by one punch.

Chuck always KO'd or rocked supposedly good strikers with one punch.

Vitor, Overeem, Mezger.

Also not sure how Mezger had zero striking skills when he is a 2 time full contact karate champion and has an absurd record of something like 44-1.

His striking was more diverse than Lyoto's is IMO...who comes from a more passive point fighting karate background.

 

Ugh
Karate is not a damn contact sport. No one with any ounce of real stand up ability would come anywhere losing a stand up battle to an actual striker. if youre honest with yourself you would see guy has never beat anyone with an ounce of stand up ability except for wandy when he fight came into pride. Other then that he did nothing relevant to be consider a real striker

How may guys NOW do you currently see with a "karate" background? And dont bring me that loyoto gibberish. He was doing what chuck did, making people fight his fight. You bring the action to him (shogun twice and rampage) and all of that cute stuff is neutralized

And metzger may be more "diverse" if you wanna go there, but all that exotic stuff clearly doesnt mean very much. Also take into account that what striking u were impressed with, was done against other fighters with miserable striking ability for the time period

Overeem did gas, if overeem had the tank now when they fought he would have rolled chuck.

Vitor to me is vastly overrated. His body of work shows nothing other then flashes of what people consider good striking

And yes, chuck has very good power in his hands. But having good power doesnt make you great at stand up. he just has heavy hands period

EDIT: GSP has been working on and off with roach for some time. As well as many of canadas top trainers while he is up there.

 

Their bodies of work speak for themselves, you are sadly mistaken if you think In going to concede based on your conjecture. Anyone who has seen Vitor fight know he's a great striker, and the idea that full-contact karate isn't a contact sport is borderline retarded.

 

The only thing funnier than the conjecture and fighter bashing is the fact that Mezger's full contact karate background apparently isnt even legitimate striking while GSP is being praised...a fighter with a full-contact karate base...::

 

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I see no contact here....I may have been wrong...

 

http://www.spike.com/video/chuck-liddell-vs/3323520

Slowing down after a flurry and getting hit with huge punches and wilting =/= gassing.

Gassing is what Shane Carwin did.

Alistair seriously must've gassed the second Chuck start putting leather to his face, huh?

 

Again....its based on the time period. Vitor was a good striker because everyone else was so horrible. And he did have fast hands.

He has just about no marque wins and has lost to just about every top notch fighter he has fought

Hes dropped fights to hendo, overeem, chuck, randy and even tito

I cant think one big win this guy has

So why is he so great? Because he split marvin eastmans head open?'

And like I asked you, if karate itself, is so effective when applied to mma, then why does NO ONE use it?

 

Yes GSP used to do karate, thats what he started out in

Now that hes advanced to a fantastic grapple and a very effective striker, what karate elements do you see when you watch him fight?

 

Since you wanna post the video. Go to 2:32 and please explain to me how anything you see from chuck here shows you that hes a great striker?

And why would you post this video? Even the announcers say hes tired, If you wanna manipulate my usage of the word gassed go ahead and do that.

But the fact is he got tired, its visible, the announcers even noticed it. I surly didnt tell them to say it

Prior to that chuck is getting knocked around the ring

 

No one asked you to concede, TLC. Its a message forum. You act like Mike is attacking you because he doesn't agree with you. Deep breath. And with that video of chuck, you are really grasping at straws. The video you post to help your arguement completely solidifies Mike's.

 

how the hell was Liddell's chin ever, "granite?"