60's Ali vs Frazier, Foreman, Norton and Holmes

How different are the fights? Say the Ali that beat Williams.

 

Ali beats Frazier so easily, there isn't a trilogy. The Foreman fight goes the distance or a late KO for Ali. Norton is beaten handily. Holmes fight is very close, SD for Ali.

 

They are all still tough fights and he may still lose some of them, despite Sly Hauser's assurances to the contrary

These guys were a lot better than his 60s opposition

 

Agreed with Cdogg.

 

I think Frazier gives any version of Ali holy hell.

Styles.

 

Same with Norton

And struggling with them or even losing one or two still wouldn't detract from his being the best

 

I think he beats Frazier first time but by no means is it "easy". At the end of the day he is still vulnerable to the left hook which is Frazier's money punch. The difference is the 60's Ali is able to move constantly and consistently for three minutes a round so he gets hit with it less, although he still will have to take a fair few along the way.

Agree that Norton and Holmes still give him hell and they are razor-close fights.

Foreman is the strange one for me. The rope-a-dope came about because of necessity. Would 60's Ali end up adopting the same tactic? I don't think so. Would the constant movement be as effective? Is the younger Ali actually more vulnerable to a guy like George? It's an intriguing match-up.

 

Nonsense. 70s Ali has harder fights against his 60s opposition. You don't seem to realize how much better Ali was from 64 to 67 than he was from 70 to 74

 

70s Ali against Ernie Terrell for example is a much harder fight and 60s Ali against Bonavena is a massacre.

 

Ali was also lighter, weaker and not as psychologically mature as he was in 1971.

He had grown up a lot by 1971.

:: at Sly Hauser. It should be Sly Sugar....."MArciano never went down and could punch harder than an armour piercing round" DAYUM.

Big Cat Williams had half his intestines blown out by a .357 magnum before he fought Ali.

 

::

Just.............. ::

 

When Ali came back in 1970 on his road to facing Frazier for the first time all the experts, including Joe Louis said he was a very changed fighter and would struggle to beat Frazier in his present state ( suggesting that in his former state he would have won without question). It was known that he came back an inferior fighter. Fast forward 46 years and motherfuckers are acting like Ali was as good or even better in the 70s and that he lost to Norton and Frazier because they were better than his previous opponents. Idiots. I can't discuss these things with idiots.

You really think 70s Ali would have beaten Sonny Liston as easily as his did in 1964?

Dumb dumbs

 

You don't seem to understand how much tougher his comp was in the 70s

 

Not to mention, Cleveland Williams pretty much sucked... He was a power puncher with mediocre skills and a terrible chin... He had one semi-notable win, a cut-eye stoppage of Ernie Terrell... Every other good fighter of his era dominated him... Don'tget me wrong, Ali looked fantastic in that match, it was great stuff, but he had a shitty version of an already shitty pro in front of him

 

Please, you don't even watch boxing.. you watch your favorite fighter or fighters

Ali was better in 1967 than he was in 1971, but his opponents in 1971 were also a whole lot better... The idea that he just easily beats Frazier and Norton like he beat guys like Terrell and London and Zora Folley is fucking retarded fan boy shit based on your need for great fighters to be like comic book heroes who never lose or never have a tough fight

 

That's harsh. Williams was a decent pro, who had very fast hands and explosive power. Except for Liston, I don't think he was dominated in his prime, and even one of the Liston fightn (the first one I think) was fairly competitive.

 

Spot on. It's not a coïncidence that the guy is also a huge comic book fan. Dude think that a lost is the end of the world, while I think that great fighters are made by the way the react to a lost.

 

Competitive for a round, maybe

Williams never beat anybody... He was a guy that KOd clubfighters and got torched when he stepped up... And that was when he was young and prime... He was pretty corpsed up when he got the Ali fight

 

Especially back then when protecting the "0" wasn't the be-all/end-all... You got matched tougher than you do now

 

Lawd have mercy. I don't care about unbeaten records. I'm a Floyd fan who just happens to be unbeaten. I'm also an Ali fan, Hopkins, Leonard, Pacquiao and a whole host of other fighters that don't have an 0.

Anyway...you fuckers like to digress to Floyd...let's get back on track.

Not saying Ali beats Frazier and those guys as easily as he did Foley, just saying he also beats them clearly. Frazier was much better than all the guys Foreman faced to that point but Foreman still beat him just as easily. If they had never fought some Irish fuck from Conecticut ( ;) )would probably say that no way Foreman beats Frazier as easily as he beat...Chuvalo etc.

Comic book heroes my big black ass!

 

Does young ali have the wherewithal/humility to play rope a dope with foreman? Can he win otherwise?

 

That's what I'm curious about too. It's the most intriguing of all the match-ups IMO.

 

People still don't seem to realize how good a young Ali was. Y'all need to break out the tapes .

Ali did rope a dope against foreman because he had no other choice. It wasn't because going in he knew that was the only way to beat him. He tried to dance but couldn't move the way he did in his youth and George easily cut off the ring. Ali had no choice but to lay there and get hit and wait for his man to tire. The fleet footed Ali of 1966 would have merely stayed on his toes and outboxed the mummy.

 

Also I heard someone say that Ali vs Frazier is a matter of styles. Do any of you realize that Ali had a far different STYLE in the 60s vs his 70s self? Lol

You fellas kill me

 

Precisely.

By 1974, Ali was a grown up man.

 

Williams came to Britain to fight a Welsh hardcase called Dick Richardson, a trialhorse on the Global scene.

Williams got to Wales and then refused to take the fight on the grounds that he was hearing voices warning him against it.

"When he was due for a return fight with Welshman Dick Richardson at Porthcawl's Coney Beach Arena in July 1958, for instance, Williams - a highly religious man - withdrew and took to his bed shortly before the weigh-in, claiming to have received a message from God telling him not to enter the ring. He refused to emerge and rejected an offer from Richardson to stage the fight in his bedroom."

 

You think Ali was a child in 65 to 67?

Most people don't seem to realize this but the Ali who fought Williams Terrel and Foley was a different animal to the young kid who fought cooper and Liston in the first fights. He had physically matured by those years and was truly prime.

 

I have my doubts that young ali can dance round foreman either. Maybe in a clown ring

 

I realize that you will probably commit Sippuku when the reality of Ali's death finally sinks in.

 

Both the 60's and 70's Ali were susceptible to the left hook, which means Frazier still gives him trouble.