:cheer: Why in the hell is floyd mayweather number 1 on ring magazines p4p list. He is good, but only beating one guy in each weight class doesn't make you champion of that weight class. The ones who clean out the top 5 or top 10 of their divisions and then go on to the next are better. opcorn:
But I don't understand what exactly made DLH "the champion" at 154...other than name recognition. Gatti wasn't the #1 at 140.
No, what made Baldomir champion at 147 was beating the living shit out of the then reigning champion.
Obviously he was considered the champion by most because he beat the former unified champ in Judah. I would say it was a fortunate for Mayweather that Baldomir happened to be the champ at the time, but that doesn't diminish the accomplishment...though he has yet to fight the other champions, who I would argue are of a higher quality than Baldomir and against whom Mayweather would prove himself more as a welterweight than he did against Baldomir. I also think Spinks was a signifncatly better fighter and tougher fight for Mayweather at the time, and still do.
No, at the time Baldomir smashed Judah, Zab was not a former unified champion. He was reigning, defending, true, linear, undisputed welterweight champion of the world. The Man at 147. When Carlos got done with Zab, Carlos himself became reigning, defending, true, linear, undisputed welterweight champion of the world.The Man at 147. And when Floyd beat Carlos, he, in turn, became reigning, defending, true, linear, undisputed welterweight champion of the world.The Man at 147. Right.......Not only Mayweather beat the living shit out of Baldomir, he also defeated Judah as well. You call that fortunate? I call it cleaning out the division. Two undisputed champions in a row. Doesn't get much better than that, especcially at 147, where there're guys like Margarito who spent an entire career never facing a serious contender. He beat two undisputed champions at 147 in a row, back to back. What more can one ask?? And I think that Oscar De La Hoya was a signifncatly better fighter than Spinks and tougher fight for Mayweather at the time, and still do. And we all know how that one turned out.
Judah only beat one really elite welterweight in his career in Cory Spinks, whom he lost to the first time. Judah wasn't that highly regarded of a champion, despite the fact that he was THE champ, and his status as a welterweight has been shown in his clear losses to Spinks, Baldomir, Mayweather and Cotto. Baldomir, likewise, wasn't a highly regarded champion. That's what I mean when I say fortunate. The Spinks fight was proposed before the Baldomir fight, not DLH.
I agree with this post. I had this exact debate on boxrec 2 weeks ago, and all the Fraud Gayweather nut riders were claiming that Baldomir and Judah were the TOP Welterweights in the world because they held some ABC plastic. Then I put forth the scenario: If Margarito was fighting Judah or Baldomir, who would you BET YOUR LIFE on to win? :dunno: There wasn't one person who didn't pick Margarito, and the Gayweather nutriders went to another thread to avoid the question. Fuck the thought that Judah and Baldomir were the Top opponents for Gayweather at the time, especially with Margarito willing and able to fight.
dsimon writes: Be that as it may Margarito is still unproven. Floyd did beat the two top guys in the welterweight division. In a perect world one could say that Margarito is the more dangerous opponent and let that determine the matchmaking, but that is not the way it works and Margarito does not help by overvalueing himself. Dymipimpel can be a troll but he is right on this issue. :dunno: Think of it this way what if you were Judah or Baldimore? would you think it fair for Mayweather to fight Margarito because he is alleged to be the toughest opponent?
Yes, because saying Judah or Bumdomir were the top opponents is not what people believed due to skill or threat, they simply based their decision on ABC plastic which to me has lost all value or meaning. I don't care about the ABC belts, I care about the individuals behind the belt. Bumdomir had nearly 10 losses on his record to other bums, and was getting soundly beat by Clottey before the stupid ref DQ'd Clottey because he was "headbutting." Judah had ALREADY LOST to Bumdomir and wasn't even a champion when Fraud fought him, that was a pure money fight plain and simple. Let's just say if Fraud had fought Bumdomir immediately, and then fought Margarito before he left 147 and beat both convincingly, I'd have no argument saying he was the legit champ.
dsimon writes: The titles are BS but they have some legitimacy. I begrudge this legitamacy but it exists. Baldimore was the champ so this is logical. The Judah fight is another matter. I am on record as saying how ridiculously overrated Judah is... I can't argue with any claim that questions Judah's right to a big fight because Judah has been a dud for years. But Margarito IMO has no legitimacy. He is wide open, has fought shit for comp and will probably get starched his next fight. There is no reason for Floyd to fight Mayweather... none. Antonia Margarita is the Phil Simms of the Mexican community::
Anyone who feels the need to resort to personal attacks, instead of addressing issues is one sad human being. How can you call the points I made "trolling" is beyond me.... To repeat: 1) Floyd "Pretty Boy" Mayweather beat former undisputed, true, linear welterweight champion of the world 2) Afterwards, "Pretty Boy" Mayweather beat reigning, defending, undisputed, true, linear welterweight champion of the world. 3) Afterwards, Floyd "Pretty Boy" Mayweather moved up in weight and beat former undisputed, true, linear welterweight champion of the world. Those are the facts.
Well, in Margarito's defence, he does have a victory over Joshua Clottey. Of course, Carlos Baldomir disposed of Clottey years ago in a much better fashion.
dsimon writes: Clottey is still a second tiere guy. Certainly Margarito should not be put in a catch 22 where he can't fight a big name guy cause he hasn't fought a big name guy. But Margarito is in no position to duck anybody right now. Margarito is entitled to a bought with Cotto and Williams is a fight where he can prove if he is really a devistating puncher who can get by another guy who can punch as well. I don't have a problem with Margarito but his value of himself seems inflated. If he is that good he should be fighting everybody and Knocking them out and then call Floyd out.
He was in no position to ever duck anyone, but somehow he managed to spend a decade at 147, without EVER facing guys like ODLH, Whitaker, Trinidad, PBF, Quartey, Cotto, Mosley, Judah, Forrest, Baldomir or even Mayorga. The guy is oustanding in running his mouth and avoiding tough competition at all costs, but has no real achievements to speak of. Think about it, he himself openly stated that Williams is a nobody and hasn't beaten anyone, and then signed up to fight the guy. Margarito is THE most hypocritical boxers in the sport right now, there's no doubt about it.
He's beaten another champion in Cintron and a quality contender in Clottey. Most people had him beating Santos in the rematch as well, which was fought at 154 for Santos' title in Santos' country of Puerto Rico. He's not the most credentialed fighter, but he has fought some quality opponents.
And Carlos Baldomir handled Clottey easier than the fraud did, and, of course, Carlos beat Judah. Throw in his victory over Gatti and Carlos' resume shits all over that of the Fraud.
Baldomir was losing on the scorecards and won by disqualification...Margarito decisioned him on the scorecards, and he was the one moving up in weight to fight Santos...unlike Baldomir who was fighting Gatti - who'd already been destroyed at welterweight by DLH - who was moving up in weight after being destroyed by Mayweather for a completely undeserved title fight with Baldomir.
Is it one of those excuses Vitaly's nut-lickers like to use?? "But he was winning on points before he lost the fight!!". Why the hell does it matter if the fighter was leading on scorecards when he lost? It was never Baldomir's inention to win on points in that fight. His plan was to apply steady, relentless pressure to break down Clottey psycologically and force him to foul his way out. And that's EXACTLY what happened. Baldomir's plan worked to perfection. You mean, he moved up one weight up to lose a fight at 154 to Santos? You know what PBF did, right? He moved up FIVE weights to beat ODLH. See the difference? One fighter moves up one weight and loses a fight to a small-time boxer. The other fighter moves up 5 weights and defeats one of the best fighters of his generation. Imagine if Margarito moved up 5 divisions and took on the best crusirweights in the world. Of course, that'll never happen, because the guy doesn't have the guts.
Klitschko-Lewis was stopped because of the damage done to Klitschko's face, not because of a foul. Furthermore, Clottey was ahead on points much later in the fight than Klitschko was. Also, I have not watched the fight - as I've stated before - but I've read accounts of it and none of them come close to describing the fight as you do...which - sorry to say - makes me distrust any account you give of the fight. If you want to upload the fight onto the internet so that people can make their own judgments on the fight, that would be great. Regardless, the Clottey that Margarito beat was much older and more experienced than the one Baldomir was losing to. As for Santos-Margarito II, again, the majority of people who actually watched the rematch had Margarito winning. And what does Mayweather's resume have to do with this? You were comparing Baldomir's resume with Margarito's ("Carlos' resume shits all over that of the Fraud").
