Arthur Abrahams Resume Is Superior To Pavlik's

You heard.

King Arthur Abraham 31-0 (25) 83% KO Ratio
Current Leader Of the Super 6 Tournament
Currently Scheduled To Face Andre Dirrell In New York City This Spring

Jermaine Taylor

• Not as great a win as some would have you believe, Abraham becomes the first man to KO Taylor while ahead on the cards, and the first man to negotiate the 12 rounds vs Taylor {or as close to it} without suffering any ill effects, bar sore hands. Without doubt the worst loss of Taylors career. By way of consistency, it should be noted that Taylor was coming off a loss, but Abraham did not schedule the fight, the organisers did, just as they scheduled his next fight, which will also be against a fighter coming off a loss. That said, Dirrell is clearly the superior of Rubio and Espino. Compare those guys to the guys Pavlik fights when they are on a losing streak.

Koren Gevor

• Decent if unspectacular fighter, recently fought for the WBA MW title and dropped a controversial decision {it was in Germany, rough with smooth, fuckers:nono:} to undefeated Felix Spurm. Had an early career win over Sergey Tatevosyan who recently went 12 rounds with Lucian Bute. Has Zuniga or Zerdouche recently gone 12 rounds with Lucian Bute? Nah didnt think so.

Kingsley Ikeke

• Was an undefeated, Freddie Roach trained fighter when he met Abraham for the IBF title. Abraham bombed him out of it in under 5 rounds. He took on future Light-Heavyweight titlist JEAN PASCAL in his very next fight {Pavlik must have been unavailable} and dropped a decision, and has not lost since then. Zertuche vs Pascal, anyone?:warning:

Edison Miranda X 2

• Abraham was given no chance the first time, and little chance the 2nd time. He won both fights. I have no argument with anyone who suggests that had this fight taken place in America, it would have been stopped. But it didnt, so tough. Miranda fought dirty and would have still lost without the deductions. And, at the same time Abraham was fighting Miranda, The King-Dipper was coming off a win over Bronco McKart:shit: and was getting ready to fight...Lenord Pierre:shit:

• Miranda had complained that making weight was killing him at 160 so the RE took place IN AMERICA at 166 and Miranda was sparked out in fine fashion. Of course, shitheads will insist he was being "outboxed"..yes, in the Derrick Gainer vs Corralles sense of the word.

Kofi Jantuah

• Former world champion, who KO'd Daniel Santos in around his 20th fight and also destroyed in 1 round a man Pavlik couldn't do a whole lot with- a certain Senor Rubio. On the downside, Jantuah started his career down around Welter, and recently dropped a decision to WBC Intl MW champ Pirog, who in turn is scheduled to fight Matthew Mackin for the EBU title- so at least Jantuah is still in the frame. Where Zuniga at?

Howard Eastman

• Eastman was the former British, Commonwealth and European Champ who fought Abraham in what was only Abrahams 16th or so fight. He had mixed at the very highest level, and was coming off a 12 round loss.......to Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins didn't do too much of a better job vs Eastman than the relative novice Abraham did, losing by 110-119, 111-117, 112-116 vs Hopkins and 112-116, 113-115 and 110-119 vs Abraham. Zertuche vs Hopkins, anyone?

Shannon Taylor

• Cannot be any worse than the likes of Bronco McKart, when you get right down to it.:: A welcome gimme for Abraham.

Sebastian Demers

• Was unbeaten {20-0) when he faced Abraham, but was very much beaten when AA was through with him. Has regrouped well, fighting regularly and only losing once since, beating Matt Vanda along the way. Vanda is typical Pavlik fare....

Kelly "Staph Sargeant/ The King-Dipper" Pavlik 36-1-0 88% KO Ratio Currently Scheduled To Fight NOBODY

Bernard Hopkins (109-117, 106-119, 108-118}

• More of the same, with Pavlik fighting a guy coming off a loss, and then losing himself! Spanked over 12 rounds by a 40 year old. Barely won a round and gave an atrocious account of himself.

Gary Lockett

• Total Bum. The King-Dipper took him out in style though. Still, no bonus points for beating up some limey.

Jermaine Taylor X2

• Easily Pavliks most important two fights. First KO was impressive but he had been floored heavily before Taylor gassed. 2nd fight was not as impressive, as Pavlik struggled at the higher weight, becoming the only sucky-ass fighter sufficiently sucky to beat Taylor on points. And yes, Taylor was coming off a loss....to Pavlik. And the guy Pavlik fought to get the title Shot? Edison Miranda. See above.

Fulgencio Zuniga

• Debuted at an undocumented weight, fought at least his first 10 fights as a 154lbr and was coming off a draw when he fought Pavlik {is this a requirement for Pavlik opponents? Do you have to be on some shit run before he looks at you?} He also struggled with Zertuche, fighting him to a draw and a SD. Has lost twice more since Pavlik and has lost to Daniel Santos, a 154lbr, before he fought Pavlik, unlike Kofi Jantuah, who KO'd Santos before he fought Abraham, and before Santos himself had done marvellous things vs Margarito.

Edison Miranda

• In true Smelly style, Pavlik fought Miranda after Abraham had unlocked the door. Pavlik only took the fight as he had to. Abraham, by contrast, took the fight when he was already Champ. Pavlik did the job though not as impressively as Abraham would, and at a higher weight at that. This is a recurring theme in this topic.

JL Zertuche

• Debuted at Light Middle. Had lost immediately before facing Pavlik to a fighter Pavlik would later go on to beat, namely Zuniga.:shit:

Bronco McKart.

• Lower division fighter {154lbr}, infamous for 3 losing attempts vs noted monster Winky Wright. He was one fight removed from a loss when he fought Pavlik, a massive improvement by Pavliks standards. In Pavliks defence, he fought to a draw with Raul Marquez, whom Abraham stopped via Retirement in a subsequent fight. Still....Bronco was a 154lb scrub.

Even if you look at guys like Raul Marquez, Lajuan Simon....these guys were better than scrubs like Bronco McKart and such like. Simon was at least undefeated {like Demers, Miranda before him} and had useful wins under his belt against decent opponents like Sergio Mora.

How Pavlik made such a career out of fighting guys with shocking form is beyond me. He clearly made a habit of fighting guys who were coming off bad results, or who had displayed a lack of form. Fuck, the only reason he REED Taylor was cos he was coming off a loss:laughing:

In Abrahams defence, he doesn't schedule the fights in the Super-6 and the nature of the tourney is that guys will be coming off losses. There is no comparison, in that regard.

So...KingDipper fans, lets be having you:warning: Your boy is out of the loop....and does not look like getting back into it anytime soon. How far will he be behind Abraham if Abraham beats Dirrell?????

 

those resumes look similar....Pavlik beat a better version of Taylor.... only needed one fight to destroy Edison Miranda, and has Hopkins on his resume even if it was a dominating and humiliating defeat...

both fighters resume is nicely pack w/ jr. middleweights....even Welterweights...

 

Sorry, but Eastman is worth more than Zuniga and Zerdouche combined....considering that Abraham went in and did the same job on him in that Hopkins did, and in only his 16th or so fight, do you really think Bronco McFart is better than Ikeke...Ikeke went 12 with Pascal long before the likes of Froch or Diaconu were even in the frame.

I mean, if you want to bring up defeats, then fine. Fucking Mundine has a better resume than Kelly Pavlik, he fought Ottke, Kessler, Soliman, Danny Green, Siaca, Echols. He lost to half of them....but they are on his resume...so that counts.:laughing:

You dont put jobs you didnt get on your resume, man.::

 

Pavlik's loss to Hopkins is equivalent to Shannon Taylor going the distance with Arabham, it counts as a loss of some kind.

 

No, it doesn't:laughing::laughing::notallthere:

Abraham is noted for two kinds of performance, one where he wins, and another where he wins and somebody gets donated to a research institute.

He likes to cruise. Or he likes to bruise. But he wins.

Pavlik cruised to a 12 round bruising vs Hopkins.

I mean.....it was dire. I actually turned it off at the end of the 11th, and I was enjoying it.

 

Yes Bronco McKart is better than IKEKE...but he wasn't very good by the time Pavlik got to him...and yes IKEKE who hasn't lose since his fight vs. Pascal like you said..but you fail to mention he only had 5 fights since 2005...:notallthere:

Edison Miranda had an easier time than both Hopkins and Abraham vs. Eastman.....

 

Cruise = Low workrate,.. and that should be your problem with Arabham, he's a spongier version of Kingpin Johnson in a way, only King-pin doesn't run for the last 30 seconds of each round - Arabham does.

 

Bronco McKart was a guy who tried and failed to make it at 154.....I mean, look at the guys who did beat Winky- Harry Simon, for example. Not exactly a world beater. But McKart failed. McKart is famous for...calling Fernando Vargas out. Ikeke may have only had 5 fights but one of them was vs Pascal. The guys Pavlik was beating...how relevant are they today?

 

I said he had a better resume. I didnt say he would sell more PPV's. After all, in addition to his wait'n'decapitate style, he does not have the right connexions or the right complexion, like Kelly "Rusty Fart Belt" Pavlik.

 

FYI:

Abraham nearly lost to Jantuah.

Pavlik couldn't do anything with Rubio? Yeah, except beat the shit out of him.

 

How you people get away with this shit is beyond me. How did Abraham nearly "LOSE" to Jantuah. A good close fight but its not like it was Andrade-Bute all over again, FFS. Talk about taking liberties with the truth. You want to see "nearly losing"...check out Pavlik vs Taylor I.

Pavlik laboured with Rubio...and Rubio froze when he went in there.

Face it....dont deny it...Pavlik was well managed into a title shot and nearly blew it at that.

People talk about how a "better boxer" will beat Abraham, blissfully ignoring how a better finisher would have KO'd Pavlik.

In the meantime, Abraham is going onto bigger and better things. Pavlik shares common opponents with Abraham, outside of that, Abraham has better wins over better opponents...and Pavlik languishes.

 

I agree Pavlik's resume is pretty shitty. So is Abraham's though.

After the tournament, Abraham's resume will be better than Pavlik's.

Still, I think Abraham is way over-rated at this point. Especially in light of his being favored by many to win the tournament, simply because he was able to do what Carl Froch had done in the same year, which is to knock out the guy who's clearly never been the same since Pavlik got done with him.

 

::

Arabham arguably lost to Eastman, not a good argument, he also arguably lost to Miranda.

Pavlik might have been absolutely clowned by Nard, but fuck, who would you rather lose to, Miranda/Eastman or Hopkins? ::

 

You guys never give it up..."Arguably Lost".....still trying the old "In Germany" trick...Abraham did the same job Hopkins did.

He got the win, and was never in trouble, and had the older man hanging on down the stretch. It was a legit win.

Dont try and shit on Abes resume with the old "controversial win" horseshit.:nono::nono:

I would rather lost to nobody...which is exactly who Abe has lost to. Nobody.

 

Regardless of Pavlik's weaknesses, I'm on firm ground when I say that a good boxer will beat Abraham.

He's only a little better than Froch.

You're talking about me - taking liberties with the truth? The same guy who claims that Pavlik, "couldn't do anything," with Rubio? ::

The reality is, no matter how much you want to dismiss Pavlik, it doesn't change the fact that Abraham isn't nearly as good as some people think.

 

Abraham is undefeated. Miranda was supposed to do him, then Miranda was supposed to do him again, then Taylor could outbox him, maybe Dirrell could do it now? He has that Vlad Klitschko thing, a dead man, that keeps walking and walking...and walking some more.

I dont dismiss Pavlik directly, I merely look at his pre-Miranda comp and I see a man who was carefully steered and managed into a title eliminator.

With Abraham, I see a guy who took risks..early in his career, and took them repeatedly since. He didnt have to defend vs Miranda...and he didnt have to RE him at 166 in America....but he did. Fuck it, when Kelly fought Hopkins, they made sure there was something for Kelly to come back to after he lost. Why he was not stripped is beyond me. Its not like he is active and has cleaned out 160.

Pavlik spent a lot of time hitting Rubio, in the head, and eventually Rubio said fuck it and quit. It was an anxious jerky performance from Kelly. Not that I care as such, just since when did the Worlds Greatest 160lbr need 8 rounds of target practice to get rid of a guy like Rubio.

 

I think he lost to Eastman and Miranda, so no I don't consider him undefeated.

I would also pick Pavlik to beat him.

 

Somewhere, a croupier is reading this and is trying to put a face to your name.

"I DIDNT FUCKING LOSE...I DIDNT FUCKING LOSE...GIVE ME MY CHIPS....WAAAHHHHHH"

I have Judah stopping Tszyu in the 12th, myself.:notallthere:

 

Wow Pascal....now there is a world beater...Pascal is a D- version of a shot Roy Jones...he sucks ass...

 

Problem is, he doesn't always 'decapitate', so Wilfried bails him out. A new promoter would help Arabham,.. because at the moment he knows well that it's just 12 simple rounds away, and that's all there is to it. If he didn't have the guarantee, then maybe he'd open the gate and move his arms around a little bit. Seriously, how can you be a fan of a fighter who averages 13 punches a round?... :notallthere:

 

I'm from Germany. I don't think Germany is the worst when it comes to bad decisions. I am a big Abraham fan. I watched the fights. Abraham did NOT do the same job on Eastman as Hopkins did. If you think so you didn't watch it.

 

Because...and get this...I think he has a good resume.

And he scores the very occasional, very rare, very....debilitating KO.

 

16 fights into his pro career he decisions a guy that just lost a decision to a much more experienced, and many-fights-removed-from-Kelly-Pavlik, Bernard Hopkins.

I am not saying he did the exact same thing, round-in-round-out, he did his usual, cover up for the first third, be active in the 2nd 3rd, dominate the final 3rd.

He won a decision, fair and square.

 

Well he sucks a lot less of it than Zertuche and Zuniga.....

You know what, why doesn't Kelly fight Pascal? If it is such an easy fight and he needs practice at the higher weights?

 

Ok then, would you argue that Arabham won the decision, if he was outlanded by 7 to 1 over the course of 12 rounds?....

:crafty: you would, you would....

 

Well, I do REEmember a certain member of Fightbeat {no names, please} making the argument that punches landed cannot be the sole arbiter of such matters.

The fight in question that night was Sugar Shane vs ODLH, II. Apparently, Ozzie had outlanded Shane over the course of the 12, but had landed a lot more of those shots in the earlier rounds than he did in the late.

A round won BIG is not worth more than a round won SLIM.

Anyways, this detracts from the argument. He won, and IMHO, has a better rep.

 

REED is a Fan of BOTH Guys, but Pavlik's Resume is SLIGHTLY Better...But By the END of the Super 6 Tourney, Abraham's WILL B BETTER, Unless Pavlik Gets Back to CONSISTENTLY Fighting TOUGH Opponents...

Pavlik had an EXCELLENT 2007 in Terms of Opponents...Zertuche, Miranda (When that MEANT Something) & Taylor (When THAT Meant Something)...Pavlik Rightfullly Gets MORE CREDIT than Abraham for DECISIVELY Beating Miranda the 1st Time Out AND Being the Man to Take Taylor's "0", by KO No Less...

If Pavlik had Stayed on his Course, this WOULDN'T Even B an Arguable Case, but Since the Loss to Bernard, Abraham has SIGNIFICANTLY Closed the Gap...1st of All, Pavlik SHOULD have Fought Abraham @ 160...The RE w/Miranda ILLUSTRATED that Abraham had NO Problems Fighting on American Soil...

& Now Abraham is not Only IN the Super 6, but Among the FAVORITES to Win It...If we have this Debate this Time NEXT Year, it's VERY Likely that Abraham will COMFORTABLY B Ahead...But Right Now it's SLIGHTLY Pavlik...



REED:hammert:

 

I agree with REED and other objective opinions.

Right now Pavlik's is better, by the end of the Super 6 - Arabham's could be better, unless he gets clowned twice in a row, which is possible.

 

I can live with that.....simply because you are at least taking into account the future fights, one of my tenets was that Pavlik was out of the loop, you are echoing that to some degREE at least.

I still think that Abraham facing Miranda, less than 20 fights into his pro career, when he had the belt and could have hidden, and still beating him, is worth a lot.

Who gets more respect for whipping Ali? Frazier or Norton? Frazier had the tougher fight, got badly beaten up in fact , but he got the W and took the other mans 0.

Norton turned the trick 2 years later, but it wasn't necessarily all that more impressive.

Now, you could say its a bad example, that Pavlik got the stoppage, but Abraham fought with no small degree of skill to avoid incoming and had Miranda in trouble on several occasions down the stretch.

Throw in the fact that he took on Miranda at 166 {dangerous territory for Kelly} and destroyed him, and I think it pans out pretty good for Arthur.

But like I said.......I can live with it, as you at least know which way this pendulum is swinging.

Pavlik is in a rut right now, and its going to take more special match-making to get him out of it.