Well, well, well. It's time for the ultimate showdown between two legendary boxers: Julio Cesar Chavez and Carlos Ortiz. Who will come out on top? Who will be crowned the king of the ring? Let's take a closer look. First up, we have Julio Cesar Chavez. He's a six-time world champion, with a professional record of 107 wins, 6 losses, and 2 draws. He's known for his devastating punches and relentless fighting style. But let's be real, he's got nothing on Carlos Ortiz. Carlos Ortiz, on the other hand, is a three-time world champion, with a professional record of 61 wins, 7 losses, and 1 draw. He's known for his lightning-fast footwork and his ability to dance around his opponents. Plus, have you seen that mustache? That alone should be enough to declare him the winner. But seriously, who cares about their professional records and fighting styles? Let's settle this the only way that matters: with a dance-off. And I'm sorry, Julio, but there's no way you can compete with Carlos' smooth moves. Have you seen him do the cha-cha? It's like watching a majestic gazelle gracefully prance through the African savannah. In conclusion, when it comes to boxing, both Julio Cesar Chavez and Carlos Ortiz are absolute legends. But when it comes to dancing, there's no contest. Carlos Ortiz is the clear winner. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to practice my own cha-cha moves.
Drunk Ortiz was retired by the kilt Ken Buchanan, while drunk Chavez was retired by Grover Wiley. Ortiz is greater
I don't think there's a huge separation between them. They were both great great great fighters, but Ortiz was without a doubt more versatile, and I consider him greater. Chavez is overrated, and that doesn't come from a place of hate. I've always been a fan of Chavez, and always will be. He was incredible to watch. He's a bit overblown. On Eastside they're calling Chavez better than Hagler. Personally, I think that's silly. I think Marvin was a helluva lot better than Chavez, but maybe that's just me. But again, there isn't much of a gap between Chavez and Ortiz. I think Ortiz would have beaten Chavez by competitive decision. Or, another scenario that's possible - Chavez wins their first encounter close, then Ortiz makes adjustments and wins the rematch clearly.
For what its worth, Ortiz is undoubtedly a top 5 fighter of the 60s. Like you can't even make a case against it. Chavez isn't necessarily a top 5 fighter of the 80s or 90s. Take that for what it is.
Great question. You have arguably the best fighter from Mexico and the best fighter from Puerto Rico. I think it comes down to whose wins on their resume you prefer. Ortiz: Ismael Laguna, Joe Brown, Flash Elorde, Sugar Ramos, Duillio Loi, Battling Torres, Kenny Lane Chavez: Edwin Rosario, Hector Camacho, Meldrick Taylor, Roger Mayweather, José Luis Ramirez, Greg Haugen, Rocky Lockridge, Ruben Castillo I personally prefer the guys that Ortiz has beaten. And I consider Ortiz as the more versatile operator. But it’s a close call.
Ah, the classic debate of Ortiz vs Chavez. While I can understand your argument for Ortiz being more versatile, I have to respectfully disagree. Chavez was a force to be reckoned with during his prime. He held multiple world titles in three different weight classes and had an undefeated streak that lasted over a decade. His ring generalship and ability to wear down opponents with his relentless pressure was unmatched. On the other hand, while Ortiz was undoubtedly talented, he lacked the same level of consistency and dominance that Chavez displayed throughout his career. Ortiz had some impressive wins, but also some notable losses, including a devastating knockout loss to Marcos Maidana. Furthermore, while Ortiz may have been more versatile, that doesn't necessarily make him the greater fighter. Chavez's style may have been more straightforward, but it was incredibly effective, and he was able to adapt to different opponents and situations. So, while I can see why you might prefer Ortiz, I have to argue that Chavez was the greater fighter. But hey, at least we can agree that they were both great to watch!
That's like a half serious post, with trolling mixed in w/the Maidana mention. But yes, both are among the finest operators in ring history.
Interesting historical note: Ortiz vs Battling Torres was really the first big PR vs Mexico matchup in history. It's not among the most famous, but it's the one that really kicked off the rivalry.
Ortiz was better. Chavez was great, Ortiz was just a little greater. Both are among the finest their respective countries have to offer. But head to head, I see Ortiz coming away with the win in a great fight, which edges it for me.
Equal as far as better, Chavez IMO certainly greater as far as his legacy. Ortiz was better at more, but Chavez's 1 dimension was all world. Feel like Ortiz would've been very difficult for Chavez as far as actually in-ring.
For me the answer is clearly Ortiz. Ortiz's resume is miles above Chavez's, for mine. He beat Flash Elorde, twice; Ismael Laguna twice; Joe Brown, Duilio Loi (in reality, he probably should've won all three), Kenny Lane twice, and Sugar Ramos twice, Johnny Bizarro, and likely should have a win over Locche, too. He didn't half arse his way through a division, he wiped it out. Chavez's best wins simply don't measure up to that lot IMO. His best win is Meldrick Taylor. Taylor was an excellent fighter, but better than Elorde? Not for me. Better than Laguna? Not a chance. I'd argue at that point he was better than Brown. But realistically, Brown was a far greater fighter. His next best wins are Rosario and Ramirez. I'm extremely confident both of those would lose badly to both Elorde and Laguna. Even the weight climbing argument isn't all too important, IMO. Chavez only won a title at one weight, Ortiz didn't. But Ortiz beat the SFW champion at 135, twice; he annexed the entire division and if he fought in Chavez's time, he could probably make 130 himself. In terms of who was better, Chavez looked far more appealing. He had a higher workrate, most pleasing technique, and he was a physical monster who used it at the core of his style. He was also very diverse in his younger days. Against Lockridge, he showed he could box on the back foot extremely well. Against Castillo, he showed his brutal aggression. Against Martinez he showed an amazing ability to counter and fight off the ropes. But Ortiz was every bit as effective at doing all of that. He didn't look as clean while doing it, but once a fight was in his control, it was already won. Aside from the obvious top spots, Ortiz was as good of a ring general as anyone who ever lived. He had a great jab, great defence, great chin, was extremely strong (probably stronger than Chavez, tbh) but his two best qualities were that he could identify a weakness in a fighters - be it tactical, mental, physical or technical - and he was capable of changing his own style or technique to exploit it. Against a guy like Laguna, he couldn't catch up to him by pressuring, he couldn't defend his attacks because Laguna was too fast, and his best moments came when Laguna allowed himself to battle it out with Ortiz. Yet in the next two fights, Ortiz transformed his style and dominated Laguna. Ortiz defied the idea of a Jack of All Trades, but a Master of None. Chavez mastered what he was good at and stuck with it. Ortiz mastered what he was good at and expanded.
I'll give Chavez this much: He handled being an alchy better. Booze seemed to make Ortiz inconsistent. Chavez didn't let being a drunk affect his game.
