Better/Greater: Whitaker or Pep?

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by George Crowcroft, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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  2. Xplosive

    Xplosive X-MOD Bad Motherfucker

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    Pep is generally considered as greater, and I have no issue with that.

    Pea imo was certainly better.
     
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  3. Jel

    Jel WBC Champion

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    Pep for both.
     
  4. Flo-Raiden

    Flo-Raiden Undisputed Champion

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    Pep was greater but I think Whitaker was a better H2H fighter. Always thought that Whitaker would have much less trouble with a fighter like Saddler.
     
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    I think there's some distance between the two on terms of greatness. Pep is a top fifteen staple (13, for me) whereas Whitaker's achievements don't exactly blow me away. Not saying he didn't accomplish a lot - he did - but I think that his talent and ability should warrant a higher placement, but I'm not going to give it him just because he should've achieved more. Pep's wins over guys like Wright, Bartolo, Joyce, Ortiz, Hernandez, Sierra, Terranova, Chavez, Famechon, Riley, and DeMarco are excellent for a base résumé; I shudder to think what Pep's record vs ranked fighters looks like, and that's without mentioning the win over Sandy Saddler. That win is genuinely legendary IMO - up there with beating Duran beating Leonard, Schmeling beating Louis or Ali vs Foreman. Then if course you have the ridiculous win streaks. Whitaker just didn't do enough to compete with this IMO.

    In terms of better, it's half a dozen and two threes IMO. Two of the greatest defensive fighters ever. Whitaker probably a bit more talented, intuitive and crazy on the reflex side of thing, but Pep's defence was more technically sound. Both worked off the same hands-down-for-a-better-view principal though. If I had straight up pick whose defence impressed me more, I'd probably take Whitaker's. There's footage of him with and without his legs. Pep's footwork was better, but he also 'relied' on it more (not that I'm trying to imply he's somewhat one-dimensional, because he wasn't), because it was better integrated into his style. He was a very proficient infighter, as well. He had excellent knowledge of how to control the opponent's wrists, head and centre of gravity, and he knew exactly how to open them up and 'escape' the inside. Pernell's work was prettier in the pocket, but I don't think he was as good as a wrestler as Pep.

    Whitaker had unbelievable footwork in his prime, as well. Not quite as good as Pep's, but if were to make a list of the ten best 'feet' ever, them Whitaker's would be on there as well (although wouldn't that technically be a top twenty??). His natural striding, Ali-esque footwork is impressive enough, but for a southpaw, it's incredible. The way he can shift his front foot, to either the outside or inside of the opponent's lead foot to suit either his jab or cross so quickly is very, very underrated skill. Made even more impressive by the fact that he could do it in the space of time it took to throw a 1-2. He couldn't shift to and from orthodox to southpaw like Pep, and he couldn't get away with some of the rule-breaking (both in a sense of the literal boxing rulebook, and the fundamental textbook) without losing his balance.

    Both had all-time great jabs as well. Whitaker's probably being better, it was definitely a better looking punch. Both used their jabs to the fullest extent, and both absolutely mastered it. Whitaker's being better aesthetically is the only thing that really seperates them. That and we can see him using it to dominate entire fights, whereas we can't with Pep.

    Whitaker was a much more naturally aggressive fighter. Pep was more inclined to baiting his man into leading, whereas Whitaker had no issues just walking them down. I suppose it's not a bad thing to have that extra arrow in your quiver, but it could potentially lead to fighting your opponent's fight.

    Both very underestimated when it comes to toughness. Their styles give off the impression they're trying to hide something fragile in their chin area, but both Whitaker and Pep were tough as fuck. I'd give the edge there to Whitaker. I struggle to see a shot, coked up Pep going up to LW and going the distance with a puncher akin to Tito at welter, with a broken jaw. He showed he was extremely tough physically in the Saddler fights, and the first time he was stopped by someone not named Saddler was in his 170th fight, in his 12 year as a pro, after surviving a plane crash. He was also accused of throwing this one, and the next stoppage he suffered. Even still, he showed a great chin before hand anyway IMO.

    I think that Whitaker was quicker, but Pep was a better puncher. He's actually quite an underrated puncher. When he sat on his shots, he did get some tough bastards out of there. Wright, Riley, Leslie, Bartolo, Fontana, Lewis, etc; all of whom were only stopped a handful of times, and all were stopped by Pep. Some of them were stopped by Pep, but went the distance with Saddler. It's an interesting little stat. Pep could definitely get a guy out of there when he wanted, despite his low KO%.

    As I said, half a dozen and two threes. I'd probably go with Whitaker, because I think he's a lock for the second best lightweight ever, whereas I think Pep is a bit below second at feather. I'd have Armstrong and Marcel above him, head-to-head. I can see niche arguments for Saddler, Saldivar, Sanchez or Arguello, as well.
     
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