Calzighe versus Hopkins... thoughts?

dsimon writes;

Thoughts?

I think Hopkins takes him.

 

dsimon, I like you n all, but sometimes you say the daftest things.

Hopkins would PRESSURE Joe?

Hopkins throws around 10 punches around, and against a world class opponent tonight Joe was throwing 100 punches some rounds, and over 1000 punches in the fight ::

I love Hopkins, and he is an incredible fighter, especially still for his age, but Calzaghe would outwork and outslick him.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

Joes output would cause Hopkins massive troubles

 

How are 30 punches a round going to beat 100? Calzaghe would shut him out.

 

Exactly.

Maybe dsimon is tired.

 

1 real punch = 100 calzagne slaps where the knuckle of his glove doesnt connect


i'd pick Hopkins

 

Shit, Slappy Joe might stop Hops.

opcorn:

 

Joe would be too much for Hopkins his speed and workrate would win him the fight.

 

dsimon writes:

It seems to me that lately punches thrown has become the new Viagra... i.e. the wonder pill the thing that wins fights automatically, you get the analogy? A lot of Joe's punches were insignificant and they could be thrown because Kessler was right in front of him.

Hops would not put himself in a position where those punches could be thrown so easily, he would not be right in front of Calzighe. he would also fight inside and punish Joe to the body making those punches harder to throw. Hopkins has the experience to use tacics that could control the punch output and pace of the fight... like making it a fight inside and tying Joe up which Kessler tried to do on occasion and could not do.

yes Joe is p4p better than Pacquio (by far and wide) and yes he is great, but I think Hops could be a real threat to him.

 

dsimon writes:

The speed may be a factor but I think "workrate" is becoming overrated as a factor in fights. Joe's workrate was partially a result of Kessler standign in front of him.

edit post: Let me also say that Calzighes strength might also be a factor. I don't think Hops could bully him but I do think he could control him ont he inside.

 

For the one thousandth time, old man Hops ain't gonna beat Slappy, no friggin' way in hell.

If Hops beats Calzaghe, I'll suck your dick, that's how sure I am on this.

::

 

On that, we agree. No doubt about it.

 

"Punches thrown" ain't viagra, but when it comes to winning fights; theyre a hell of a lot more influential in winning a contest than "no punches thrown", which is what Hopkins specialises in these days,

 

I don't by any chance think that Calzaghe would find it an easy fight or have everything his own way. B Hop is still a great fighter as his recent outings have shown.

 

That´s what makes Calzaghe so effective. He has found a style that makes him virtually unbeatable. He doesn´t turn his punches over, and just flurries faster than any human being this side of Roy Jones could throw a textbook punch with authority. He has the footwork, conditioning and chin to make it work.

 

dsimon writes:

I want you to wear the red dress, and the NICE Heels, the ones that make you look like a slut!

:: ::

Seriously though, heres the thing: These Euro orthodox guys they just get bitch slapped by Joe and never go to the inside, or whenever things get physical they back down. Even the body shots used are from a distance. Whenever Kessler finished an exchange he was running away. Half the time he was trying to set up to punch he was backing away.

I really believe, without trying to be absurd like Double, that Joe would have some problems with a guy who controlled this part of the exchanges and did not simply let Joe come back and fire at random. Hops would press Joe and make him fight part of the round in close.

Yeah Joe is strong but Hopkins is underrated in his inside game. For example, as great as Ali was, Frazier made him fight from a distance he didn't like and was succesful in that capacity because it gave Ali fits... Most guys backed off of Ali when he used his handspeed. This is an example and it applies here because Kessler, who obviously is a strong guy and a good puncher (KO % respectable) backed off of Joe when things got aggressive.... The only time he didn't was the 12th round and he was succesful!

 

dsimon writes:

Look. You are just stuck on punch output. Look at the fight carefully for a second and forget about throwing 500 punches and realize a couple of things ok?

1) Kessler was succesful in the last round because he did not back away from Joe after he scored with a punch. Kessler's lack of aggression, which caused him to fight defensively for most of the fight allowed Joe to back Kessler off by throwing half hearted shots and then mixing them in with hard punches. The truth is (beyond the hype) both guys were basically rocked a few times during the fight.

2) You fail to realize that one can neutralize punch output. Again Kessler backed off of Joe allowing him to get punches off, he did not neutralize Joe at all.

3) Hopkins style is such that he would not back off of Joe and would make parts of the fight occur on the ropes. Hop's body attack would also affect punch output from Joe.

So I fail to see why it is so absurd to think Hopkins could take Calzighe.:dunno:

 

Hopkins would hold so much you might as well bring a pillow

to the fight, because the clash of styles would be very boring. Hopkins would hold the whole fight.

 

Hopkins get's SLAUGHTERED!!

Hopkins would just try to stink it out by charging in,throw a right hand and then dry fuck until the ref pulls them apart. (basically,the way Hopkins wins his fights) But Joe is way too good for any of that to happen.

Like some have said,how does 16 punches a round,gonna beat 100 punches a round,even if the majority are just slaps.

Calzaghe wins,and wins rather easily!!

 

I hate to admit it. I'm a big fan of calzaghe, but Dsimon is right...Hops would tag calzaghe all night long and fight his usual dirty/crafty fight en route to a boring UD. Hops is still sharp and can hang in there with a high pressure fighter, he proved that against winky. Joe has too many holes in his defense for hops to feast on. This comes from me, someone who wishes to see hops out cold like roy jones vs. glen johnson, or like rahman vs. lewis...

 

You forgot to mention one thing...Hops is one hundred years old.

Slappy Kos Hops inside of 10 rounds.

opcorn:

P.S. I will never wear a red dress, but I'm open about the heels.

::

 

With the amount Hopkins holds, calzappy would be

lucky to throw 10 punches per round too. All night long his arms would be held.

 

I pick Calzaghe to win also...but anyone who bases this on the simplistic notion that Calzaghe throws on average far more punches than Hopkins....is not a good fight analyst.:nono:

Hopkins' style is to LIMIT the punch output of his opponent. Joe Calzaghe would NOT be throwing 100 punches per round at a fighter that's either a constantly and unpredictably moving target and OR who'll tie him up and rough him up...up close.

Hopkins is a spoiler. You don't know quite what he's going to do..and he's very smart and adapts to the style of his opponent.

Antonio tarver showed against Glen Johnson that he's capable of throwing a hell of alot of punches when he has an opponent that allows him to. Against Hopkins...this "ability" meant shit.


Calzaghe wins...but a very close decision.

The Sly One has Spoken!!

 

dsimon writes:

True but can he do this when being pressured? that is the question.

 

Bernard's legs are gone,he shouldn't even be fighting anymore.A fighter like Calzaghe will snap some reality into him.

 

I wish Buurnard would retire too.

 

dsimon writes:

:bears:

Thank you Sly. People just go nuts when a guy wins a big fight.:dunno: I mean Kessler is an excellent opponent and I would put Calzighe as number 2 pound for pound as he is better than Pacquio imo, but Kessler has weaknesses that Hops does not. Kessler is too damn orthodox. If Kessler had made it a war early he would have had a lot more success btw. Look at the twelfth round of the fight.

Guys get all hot and bothered on punches thrown without realizing that these punches have to land on the other guy somehow. Kessler could not get his punches off because he was standing in front of Joe all night.

I tend to think that the early part of a fight with Hopkins would be frustrating for Joe and he would get roughed up in close. Hoplkins always comes on in the second part of fights and Joe has the conditioning to fight back, it would be a battle. Joe would not like fighting a guy who smothers him.

 

I'm a huge Hopkins fan but he is too old and not active enough to beat Joe.

 

Yeah, but Kessler has some advantages over Hopkins as well that are necessary against someone like Joe, Such as better punching power, quickness. Hopkins has slipped a bit and is not quite as powerful or quick as Kessler. Kessler probably has better reflexes as well.

Calzhage decisions Hopkins is a fight kinda like the Kessler fight IMO, just a bit more boring.

 

Best point of the debate. I am stunned that people actually think fighters just decide NOT to throw a ton of punches against Hopkins. :doh:

Bernard is a master at controlling pace and distance. Both those combine to limit his opponent's punch output. Hopkins is a master at throwing one or two accurate shots and falling into a clinch to stop his opponent from being able to move away or counter. And then while they are re-setting their feet, he'll pop them on the inside a couple of times. That strategy, if it works, can't help but limit the number of punches thrown in a round.

Personally I would love to see Joe's speedy but unorthodox footwork against Hopkins pace-controlling mastery.

Unfortunately I think it would end up being much like Hopkins-Taylor in the sense that Hopkins wouldn't clearly be beaten, but he also wouldn't clearly win.