I was watching Monzon/Valdes II and Robinson/LaMotta yesterday and though of this matchup, which I haven't seen before, or at least long enough ago that I don't recall it Let's say Robinson, pre-retirement, after stopping the Bull, his first KO of Bobo Olson, etc, his two fights with awkward Randy Turpin... so much closer to his Welterweight prime than he was against Gene Fullmer, Basilio, etc.... Put him in against Monzon at his best... do you think he could beat the great Argentine champ? You've got Robinson's great offensive skills and his mobility, you have Monzon's pin straight punches and stellar ring generalship... both guys were tough, durable, game and determined, both had that sort of intangible IT factor that the greats often have when tested most severely Obviously, 15 rounds... I'd be shocked if anyone predicted a KO, who do you think wins it?
I always liked Monzon in this clash, though I have a very healthy respect for the Middleweight Robinson, whom I rank above Hagler at the weight. If you look at Robinson's career, it's a case to be made he struggled with two types of fighters --- those bigger & stronger than he, fighters who had a size advantage & were particularly adroit at pressing that advantage, rough tactics, a long, spearing jab, & also perhaps fighters with very high-volume assaults, who could get close & stay there. Monzon fits the former category quite nicely. He wasn't as actively bruising as LaMotta or Fullmer, but he was plenty damaging, & had a superb, methodical way of breaking a man down. Some people say he lacked true fluidity & rhythm, two things Robinson had in spades, but this, to me, is red herring material. George Foreman lacked a lot of things, but getting in there & actually beating the man proved so much more difficult than any short-comings he may have had made it appear. Likewise for Monzon, & I just always had the feeling in this one he would present a puzzle with which Robinson would really struggle to ever feel comfortable with. I wouldn't predict a KO, but if the money came in heavy for Robinson, I sure would be tempted...I used to have Monzon down as the greatest Middleweight ever at one stage. I think very highly of both men.
I think it's the classic mythical matchup result when pitching Ray Robinson against any of the other BEST of the BEST middleweight champions (Monzon, Hagler, Hopkins)... Monzon wins by decision, Robinson wins the rematch by decision. Robinson seemed to be the rematch specialist at this weight..not able to figure out the tough challenge on the first time around.
^^^a very astute point... part of what makes Robinson, well, ROBINSON is this ability to surprise with comebacks as a middleweight... as a Welterweight, he didnt have to do it... he was just too much for even the best guys around, the best anyone could do was a close decision loss here and there... but at Middleweight, age and fame and size made things tougher on him and tested his resolve and his resiliency I also favor Carlos here, as I am tempted to favor him against just about any middleweight, not just in terms of "greatness" but also on a head to head level, because he was so unique... In Robinson he would be facing the quickest-fisted fighter he ever faced and far and away the most intelligent, inventive puncher... Robinson's mobility would also be something a cut above anything he experienced, but I like his unshakeable poise, his methodical, icy calm, the way he could just stick those long, perfectly straight jabs and crosses out there... Its a superb fight no matter who wins... I like Monzon to be 2-1 if it were a trilogy, or perhaps 2-1-1 if its a quartet of fights, but would 2-2 really surprise anyone given Robinson's ability to surprise those who got the best of him? This is one of those matchups you truly wish you could make happen, just as a fan
Because it's such a toss up. I lean toward Robinson but I can see Monzon taking it as well. Great fight but a hard pick.
I would favor the St Valentines Day Massacre version of Ray to pull off the close decision on workrate and aggression. His combinations would take the vote from the judges here.
I coulda swore I posted on this thread. Guess not. Anyway, Monzon teds to get overrated. Like PR said... I'd take the Robinson of the Valentines massacre to beat him. Hell that version of Robinson possibly beats ANY 154-160 in history. Monzon never faced anyone with the handspeed, fluidity, and POWER that Robinson had. Valdez was a big puncher, but lacked the speed and skill set that Robby had. Ppl act as if Monzon was indestructable, but he wasnt. He could be hurt, and I have NO DOUBT that Robinson could hurt Monzon if he caught him right, and he def hit hard enough to keep Carlos honest.
I like Robinson's mobility to carry this one from the outside. Though I have to temper that with the admission that all I've seen of Monzon is a 2hr Marshall Cavendish video compilation and what's on youtube. From that the only guy who really gave him movement to deal with was Tony LiCata and it seemed to take him out of his natural ryhthm & range enough to tempt comparisons to what Robinson might have gotten done. Any other fights where Monzon dealt effectively with a mover?
