I say Joe is too small, too chinny to survive for long. 202lb......nah. Not enough there to take the incoming.
Louis by KO over Wlad, 9/10 of 10. Early. Vitali's a much tougher fighter, but I'd favour Louis by KO too. This isn't Lamon Brewster or Sam Peter we're talking about here, it just really, really isn't.
The funny thing of this is a lot of people who proclaim Louis, "too small" will champion the odds of Ali --- a mere two inches taller, & no more than ten pounds heavier, than was Louis. I have not seen one thing either Klitschko does in all their long careers which tells me they could deal with Louis. Honestly --- they are both such beatable fighters.
I would be as confident of him beating Wlad as any MM between long time world champs you could realistically set up, tbh. It's close to a stick on early Louis KO. Vitali is a potentially difficult fight for anyone but he would have to KO Louis before he got pulverised with something life alteringly judder-fucking. Could happen, it'd be a fire fight. Louis KO Wlad 3 with several kds before that. Wipe out basically. Louis KO 5 Vitali in a 2 way battle where he gets off the floor at least once.
Thats because: Ali was faster taller Heavier beat better opponents had a solid amateur background had a better chin I mean..apples and apples. Ali had around 1.5 inches and 10lbs on Joe...plus all of the other intangibles. It's not even a fair comparison.
You do know this is LOUIS and not LEWIS, right? Yes. Joe "Judder Fucking" Louis....if LEWIS cant move Vitali, then how is little LOUIS going to? Fuck it...Lewis Hamilton has a better shot than Joe Louis.....
The Klitschko's are not Abe Simon or Primo Carnera, dude. They are far better. I don't get how Lewis can land HUGE swings on Vitali without putting him over, yet the smaller Louis does it in 5? Sorry mate, just can't see it. Don't get me wrong, I love watching the old Louis fights and he is a far better fighter, but he's too small and has been decked by guys less talented than the Klits.
Louis hit at least as hard as Lewis. Please watch him LITERALLY physically knock the 270lb Carnera flying off his feet and 3 feet over the ring before you reply with something dismissive. Louis was the same size as Shavers and hit just as hard while being about 30x the technician.
All that is fair & to the point, but I'm just making the one issue that a lot of people will aim directly at size, but consider Ali big enough, leaving aside Ali's other intangibles. All things considered, I do not consider either Klitschko especially dangerous to Louis. As for, "how tough" big brother is, I don't doubt the potency of anyone who can leave Tony Galento stumbling like a newborn lamb, bring Maxxy Baer to his knees, These men weren't as a tough or tougher than big brother? I find that difficult to contend. As for little brother, he's a good fighter, but in all honesty, he is so far out of his league with any of the genuine legends of the division, he'd have to be twelve feet tall & have a hundred-fifty pounds on Louis before I entertained his short-comings not proving his undoing. He is a good fighter with a few very good qualities, but you don't get to the Moon riding a bicycle, & you don't beat Joe Louis --- a walking artillery --- with a bow-&-arrow. I don't want to come across as disrespecting to the Klitschkos --- either of them --- as I'm sure some will take this post as being. I don't consider it disrespectful to a fighter to say they weren't in the class of the true all-time legends of their division. Each brother has a series of attributes which make them quite good, capable fighters, but a good deal of their success still owes to the division's obesity & talent crisis. Put another way, I think they could dominate better guys than what they've been facing, but how much better? Probably, it takes less in my eyes before they'd start to crumble than you believe, Irish. That's what the forums for, though.
People blab on about the loss to Sanders by Wlad. Sanders hit fucking hard. I mean HARD. And Wlad kept getting up. Its not like his chin is total mush. This notion that someone like Joe Louis is just going to reach up and do him with one shot is just baloney.
Yup Sanders hit hard. Not as hard as Louis, but very hard. And he was about as fast. In every other department the comparison is laughable as Wlad would find out rather sharply.
They are a completely different class of puncher. While both Lewis & Louis had a devastating single punch (many opponents of both men will testify --- some more begrudgingly than others), Lewis' overhand right was a clobbering blow from a man a little heavy & slow to follow-up with snappy, multi-punch combinations. What made it possible for Louis to take out men who, by the most conservative measures, were at least as durable as Klitschko was not that he had a great punch --- though he most certainly did. It was the speed & velocity of the blow, & the fact he could incorporate several such shots into an extremely compact timeframe. He didn't compromise his power much with overwhelming speed & precision. These are things Lewis simply didn't have. It's the primary reason men previously thought unbreakable, or near-unbreakable, were broken. They were very hard men, capable of absorbing both crippling single blows & sustained beatings, but to be repeatedly dosed with jolting power at such swift speeds, & with such accuracy, was death for men as hard as they come.
First off...Wlad brings more than a bow and arrow. I mean.....please. Primo Carnera suffered from Giantism, or Acromegaly. He did not, at any point in his career, proceed beyond having basic skills. He did not develop a big punch. He was a big lug with no skills. A punching bag, basically. You talk about "crumbling". Name a bigger, heavier, harder hitting, more adept heavyweight than Lennox Lewis? Name a guy who could both reach and hurt Vitali like Lewis did? There was very little crumbling on Vitalis part, and there would be even less if he fought Louis. Except on Louis part.
I think a point people commonly miss regarding Carnera, Simon, Galento & company is how durable these men were. It is no exaggeration to observe their careers & call them teak-tough men. People are happy to write them off as also-rans, but there is no denying a man who can take a licking, & these guys folding under Louis' offense is, if nothing else, as reputable a mark of how lethal Louis was as there is.
Sanders took a better beating when he was in the mood for it. He did far better with Rahman before the same Rahman took out Lewis. I dont see Joe Louis absorbing the body shots or head shots that were landed by Vitali on Sanders.
No...its a mark of how easy they were to hit often. Today, you don't get that. Post-Ali, heavyweights got more in tune with the notion of moving. Not just forward, but backwards, sidewards, and more importantly- away Klitschko would pull his guns back And little Private Joe Louis would try and shuffle his way across no mans land, like they showed him in Brewster. Thats the gym not the fighter. By the time Private Joe made to enemy lines, they would have something for him.
Maybe not in the conventional sense, but they are both very good at controlling distance, something I feel Joe would have a hard time making up. I hope you realise I am a big Louis fan and it pains me to say this ::
They are good at it --- you're right, & I expected someone would bring that point up. It's difficult to be sure how good, as the competition is so, shall we say, unwilling. Not strictly in the ring, but in the weeks & months of preparation so many of them are neglecting before fighting the Klitschkos. As an aside, it's funny how fickle fight fans can sometimes be. I remember watching the Klitschkos on the way up, & the feeling was heavily-slanted in the direction that big brother was a stiff, lumbering, robot of a fighter, & that junior, a little more fluid & with a greater sense of boxing nuance, was going to be the star of the two. I really don't think that's ever changed with these two, but as big brother showed himself to be so much more durable, support has swung heavily in his favour. As a result, I think it's big brother who is the most over-rated of the pair. He simply isn't that good of a fighter, which isn't to say he isn't capable. I just think his toughness doesn't completely compensate him for being little brothers' talent-inferior to the point where it makes him the better fighter, something a lot of people seem to think he is.
Well I was always more impressed by Vitali, as he first came to my attention with the win over Hide, who as hut can tell you, I'm a fan of ::. Wlad is more fluid though but if I was a heavyweight facing one of them I would certainly be more worried about the prospect of sharing a ring with Vitali.
As someone who stands 5'8", I would be plenty worried about either of them :: Both Klitschkos are quite good fighters, & I always worry that threads like these make people picking against them appear to be diminishing them as men. I don't see that as the case. It takes nothing from them, IMO, to say I don't favour them to beat Joe Louis. No one would accuse a person of such if you substituted his name for Muhammad Ali's, yet I do not regard Louis as Ali's inferior, even if his style makes a fight for him a little more dangerous against the Klitschkos' than does Ali's.
I will end my participation in my own thread by saying that anyone who cannot visualize the fundament of Joe Louis being forced to walk down natural punchers with greater range and variety, and all the problems that brings, doesn't want to deal with reality in the first place.
I gotta go with Joe yes he is smaller but what I think sometimes we forget.. the old timers fought a LOT and did not matchmake as carefully in the 29 months from January 1939 through May 1941, Louis defended his title thirteen times, a frequency unmatched by any heavyweight champion since the end of the bare-knuckle era. The pace of his title defenses, combined with his convincing wins, earned Louis' opponents from this era the collective nickname "Bum of the Month Club. Wlad or Vit would be another "bum"
:::::: Why would you even fucken try? ... don't you know what happens to contemporary fighters in here?... and do you know the severity of what happens to contemporary European fighters in here?..:: You took a wrong turn on your way up to general ^ chap,.. how do you argue with a collective record of 100 - 0 with 100 ko's ?.. :: .... in good faith you came..
