I'll admit, I did kind of like the brutality of them back in the PRIDE days, but now they bother me. In the GIF below, poor Roger Huerta takes about as brutal a shot as you can take in MMA. I feel bad for the guy. He was once a highly regarded UFC prospect with a 20-1 record and wins over Wiman, Leonard Garcia and Clay Guida. Now he's lost 6 of his last 7 including the near decapitation below.
Jesus christ, that's Huerta? That guy looks twice his size too. What happened to him? He used to be pretty good IMO, the guy that beat Guida was legit. I wonder what caused the fall from grace?
I like them , without them, wresler can shoot whtout risking any retalitaion. Not to mention it's way easier to ko someone with them. Wandy probably would have koed Franklin if he was able to use them
At the very least, but maybe most, you should be able to kick someone anyplace other than the head when they are down. I'm not really against it in the head, either, but it makes sense to make those illegal to keep someone from getting killed.
I agree with this. Is is very evident in the in the success that the wrestlers have in the UFC as opposed to Pride.
Very good point actually, the rules allow a wrestler to just maul and hump his opponent in relative safety.
I have never thought that soccer kicks being illegal benefits a wrestler. An accomplishe wrestler is never in the position Huerta was in that GIF. Head down, on his knees. Wrestling is a dominant top position style. It does lead to boring lay and pray from guys who have excellent top control, but don't go for subs or to pound someone out. Anthony Mckee comes to mind. But soccer kicks are generally successful on brawlers or even inexperienced fighters because they find themselves out of position. I love soccer kicks, but I think they are best used when guys are trying to avoid stand up like Aoki doing his butt scoot.(drives me fucking nuts.) When I think of a premier wrestler, I think of guys like Shields or Gray Maynard. I would be willing to bet that if you went through their fights you would be hard pressed to find a time when they could have been soccer kicked in a fight. Oh and I am in favor of soccer kicks. I don't see them being any more dangerous than a head kick in the stand up.
Exactly. Soccer kicks don't hurt wrestlers in the least. A guy like Chael Sonnen is never going to be in a position to take a soccer kick. That being said, I think a guy on his back should be able to kick a bitch anywhere he wants aside from the groin.
Huh? That's not remotely true. Think about how easy it is to knee a guy who just failed a takedown, now imagine you took a big step back to avoid the takedown and are out of range for a knee, they'd be a ripe for a good soccer kick. Soccer kicks and kicks/knees to a downed opponent would be extra weapons a wrestler would have be careful of when mindlessly trying to score takedowns.
Good point. Help me out. I am trying to remember a good example of this in PRIDE. Any come to mind? I am old and drawing a blank.
That's also a good point, none actually spring to mind from Pride. But the first thing I thought of was in the UFC it is not uncommon for a guy who failed a takedown to literally be asking for a soccer kick, generally after a sprawl, out of range for a knee and on the floor. Obviously to knee a guy you have to time it perfectly and have just the right range and everything, it's more common to just step back from a takedown and sprawl, and considering how vulnerable you'd be to a kick in the head on the floor, it would certainly give wrestlers something to think about.
Thats some good points MWS. The failed takedown shot is really the best oppurtunity to use it on a wrestler. With that said, the top notch wrestlers don't get many shots blocked by someone who isn't another wrestler. Like I said, I think the soccer kick is all part of the game. But I think it would be more used on sloppy shots, rather than accomplished wrestlers.
Maybe so, but you must admit, it would give even accomplished wrestlers something to think about. And even if there aren't a load of examples in Pride showing this scenario, I still think it would be legit. Think about the way MMA progresses etc, people would start to practice it after a failed takedown or sprawl and it would simply be one more significant deterrant for wrestlers.
knees on the ground would be a lot more usefull on a wresler, cause if you sprawl well, you're directly in the position to deliver one
Without a doubt. I have a wrestling and boxing background myself. I have always loved the knees to a grounded opponent. Knees to a grounded opponent are much more applicable to a wrestler.
It would also be an advantage for a wrestler in top control. Could you imagine if Brock Lesnar was allowed to knee Mir in the face when he had him pinned the entire fight?
Looking at the replay, I wonder if Huerta even realized at that point that soccer kicks were allowed. Considering to the best of my knowledge, he's never fought in a fight where they were allowed, and the way he just kinda hung out there on his hands and knees, it seems like he had no idea a head kick could be coming his way. TFK
My guess, TFK, is you are partially correct. I am sure he was told before fighting. I don't doubt that at all. But when you have spent your career fighting one way, you just don't change in one fight. My guess is he was trying to survive, and when you are in that mode, you resort back to what you know. His mind wasn't thinking of rule changes. Lyle Beerbohm told me the hardest thing he did was fight for Strikeforce with elbows being illegal. He said he constantly had to think about it, and our corner guys had to keep reminding him every fight. When the bell sounds, you do what you know.
I heard that soccer kicks were not legal in this fight if you were on all fours. It was up to the ref to enforce this and he did not make the call here. So basically, the kick was not legal, they awarded the other guy not only the win but a KO of the night bonus.
I think they should definately be allowed. With a competant ref they are no more dangerous than the variety of legal strikes. I hate seeing guys hang around on the ground, and play the stupid keeping one knee on the ground game and waiting for the chance to quickly lift up and out of harms way. It severely cheapens the matchup, and like everyone has mentioned, generally allows no effective retaliation to dry-humpers repeatedly trying to take the fight to the ground.
Big difference though. In the UFC i can see millions of times where a wrestler tried a lackluster TD and just lazily got back to his feet, standing straight back up since there was no fear of a soccer kick incoming. In Pride I think they were a lot more cautious because they had to worry about incoming.
I think you are correct, but I'd like to look over a list of banned techniques. Anyone care to give this a shot?
The reason they are more dangerous is the same reason people can kick footballs 70+ yards when the ball is on the ground, 60+ yards at hip level, and maybe 40+ yards at head level, I'd guess.
