Gilberto Roman vs Sugar Baby Rojas II

Such a beautiful pure boxing exhibition:



Roman easily a top 5 super flyweight great.

 

Roman's long arms always disconcerted me . A brilliant, standout performance. I believe Roman was Nacho's favourite, though he was already quite developed as an olympian when they met.

 

Yeah, freakishly long arms for a flyweight. He also had an awesome ability to quickly turn one off those jabs into a powerful left hook.

How would you rate him at 115?

BTW- ill be uploading Rojas' win over Laciar to my YT page sometime next week.

 

Great performance by Roman. He looked like Miguel Canto and Willie Pep at times with his movement. What a boxing technician he was.

Makes me wonder why Nacho's other students don't emulate Roman's style as much.

 

Nacho follows the Cuyo Hernandez style and thought of Boxing, mostly, and that's how he trains his guys. Roman was already developed as an Olympian by the time Nacho worked with him, I believe.

 

Welcome, Flo!! Nice to have you!

Unfortunately, Roman gets overshadowed by Marquez and Finito as far as Nacho's students go.

Roman certainly compiled a stronger resume than Lopez.

 

Has an argument as high as 1 imo. I might put him around 3 or 4, thinking roughly. He is no lower than 5.

 

Speaking of Canto, although not as great, H2H Roman would be a horrible fight for Canto. Too big, and too many tools for Canto to have handled.

 

Agreed.

 

I think Zapata is the worst for him (that isn't Harada or Chang). Imagine the difference in size.

 

Glad to be here!

I agree, it seems like many fighters try to mimic JMM and Finito. IMO I think Roman was the most talented out of the 3. Shame he gets heavily overlooked nowadays. I would have figured he would gain a similar Salvador Sanchez-esque following because of his untimely death.

 

Yeah, Harada, Chang, Zapata are all bad for Canto, for different reasons. Harada the worst for him.

Ohba also would have been a bad matchup for Canto, and Canto kind of lucked out that Ohba tragically died.

Canto would shine more against a guy like Carbajal, Arbachakov, or probably even Chocolatito.

 

Nah, super flyweight just doesn't have the historical luster of featherweight, so I'm not surprised he's not a Sanchez-like icon.

Sanchez also has the defining win over Gomez, which made him famous.

Wins over Watanabe and Rojas, although excellent, isn't the same as beating Gomez, as Wilfredo was considered by many P4P #1 when Sanchez destroyed him.

 

I would add to Roman's resume that he schooled Hatanaka, who won a title at 122 in a war over Pedro Decima.

 

I'd actually rate Roman as the GOAT 115 pounder. Much more impressive résumé than Jiro, Tapia or Khaosai IMO, and I think his is more impressive than Moon's too. Those other four making up the rest of my top five.

H2H he was truly brilliant. Again one of the very best. I'd pick him over all but Moon, I imagine. Maybe Inoue or Galaxy could KO him. I'll have to make a point of watching this fight.

Just re: Canto - I think he'd have beaten Oba. Based on the latter's troubles with Susumu. Canto was much, much better than Hanagata.

 

Imagine an arguable division GOAT who isn't in the HOF.

Because Wlad's countless defenses against 100 no hopers are soooooo impressive...

Fuckin popularity contest.

 

Super fly, if you think about it, is probably the most disrespected division.

Of all the guys in the super flyweight GOAT conversation, only two (Khaosai and Tapia) are in the HOF.

Roman, Moon, and Watanabe have all been screwed.

 

Yeah I never understood why they still haven't considered Roman, Moon, and Watanabe yet. It really is a popularity contest at this point.

Even today I still don't think Super Flyweight division gets enough attention despite the amount of talented fighters such as Chocolatito, Gallo, Ioka, SSR, Cuadras, Nietes, etc.

 

Most the writers/voters are hacks, that's why.

A guy like Dan Rafael would get laughed out of any serious boxing forum, yet he's some "expert" in the mainstream media.

 

Roman and Moon might still get it, especially Moon with other Koreans having entered 'recently'. Jiro will never get in on account of his criminal connections (or maybe that is the thing that will get him in )

 

I think the difference with Sanchez is that there's always that sense of unfulfilled potential - people can project how much greater he could have become (whether that would have happened is irrelevant) whereas with Roman his career was effectively done at the point he died. And yes, he was a super flyweight so that doesn't help his cause either.

 

Good point. I agree.

 

Do you think a prime Roman would’ve beaten a prime Konadu? I don’t. Konadu just had the misfortune of coming across the one guy that was his stylistic foil (and everyone else’s but Khaokor, apparently).

I have a hard time seeing a young Konadu lose to anyone with a primarily fundamental style, or just lacking the necessary physical tools to deal with his firepower like Roman, Watanabe, Laciar, Penalosa, Cuadras, Estrada, Gonzalez, Ballas, Johnson, Nietes, etc. I don’t even know what to make of a bout between he and Tapia prime for prime. On paper he’d seem the easy choice but it’s hard to get the many images of their actual fight out of my head, despite Konadu being years past his true prime.

Khaosai, Borkhorsor, Donaire, Inoue, Avelar, Rojas, Darchinyan, etc. would be the toughest fights for him. Unorthodox and not physically outmatched by much.

 

I opened a Konadu vs Rojas matchup in the MM section.

 

BTW- I dunno about Konadu, but I dont think any version of Roman beats Moon.

Moon just completely overwhelmed him.

 

TBH mate, I haven't seen their actual fight. Although from what I've seen outside of it (Tapia, Deathmask, Moon I & II etc), I'd say Roman would beat him. I'll watch their fight, and get back to you though. I do think it could be really interesting.

Also, were Nana vs Chuwatana filmed? They sound like brilliant fights, and I'd love to see more of what is likely Sahaprom's best win.

 

Konadu beat the shit outta Roman.

Of all the greats at 115, think Roman matches up best against Tapia, because of Johnny's lack of power.

 

@George Crowcroft Do you think Penalosa or Tokuyama could beat Roman?

 

They were very good fights. They were both up on YouTube a few years ago. Chuvatana was essentially a southpaw Sahaprom, but less refined. He could show excellent technical acumen, but not with the kind of steadfast resolve of Veeraphol.

 

As big a fan of Penalosa as I am, no. I don't think he could do it. He's just way too patient, and doesn't have the speed of foot to get up close. Roman probably eats some heavy counters, but I think he clearly out-hustles Gerry, and wins a clear, but close decision.

Tokuyuma gets completely outclassed and stopped IMO.