Golden Memories

I think this deserves a review. Back when Cupey was sharing articles on the Fightbeat home page

TRACY CALLIS

Boxing fans have varied opinions as to which fighters were the greatest of all-time. Younger fans prefer the modern fighters. Older fans prefer the old timers. Other fans have mixed and more diversified views.

Those who favor the modern fighters argue that the men have gotten bigger, faster, and stronger over the years. They also point out that techniques have improved with the passing of time.

Those who favor the fighters of the earlier years contend that the men grew up in tougher times and were "hungrier," more rugged, better disciplined, and better conditioned.

I do not believe that all fighters and athletes necessarily get better with the passing years. Athletes do get bigger, faster, and stronger over time. Techniques improve too. But, that does not mean they are better. Different periods of history impart certain attitudes and practices due to the "temper of the times" and the conditions under which the people live. Athletic skills are affected by mental conditioning and discipline as well as physical attributes and techniques. Consequently, performance peaks and ebbs in different periods of history and fighters are better in some periods than they are in others.

It is my definite belief that different periods of history produced better fighters than other periods, but the very best fighters of all-time from any era could fight with each other on a competitive and "near-equal" basis.

In these rankings, I have included a man in several weight classes if I believe him to be among the greatest at that weight. For what it's worth, here is one man's opinion.


[TABLE="width: 0"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Heavyweights:



1. Jim Jeffries

2. Jack Johnson
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Joe Louis
5. Muhammad Ali
6. Gene Tunney
7. Jim Corbett
8. Sonny Liston
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Larry Holmes
[/TD]
[TD]Cruiserweights:




1. Jack Johnson

2. Jack Dempsey


3. Joe Louis


4. Gene Tunney


5. Jim Corbett


6. Rocky Marciano


7. John L. Sullivan


8. Peter Jackson


9. Bob Fitzsimmons


10. Tom Sharkey
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Light Heavyweights:
1. Gene Tunney

2. Bob Fitzsimmons
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Sam Langford
5. Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
6. Harry Greb
7. Kid McCoy
8. Michael Spinks
9. Archie Moore
10. Bob Foster
[/TD]
[TD]Middleweights:
1. Bob Fitzsimmons

2. Stanley Ketchel
3. Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
4. Harry Greb
5. Sugar Ray Robinson
6. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
7. Kid McCoy
8. Tommy Ryan
9. Roy Jones Jr.
10. Mickey Walker
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Welterweights:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
3. Kid McCoy
4. Tommy Ryan
5. Joe Walcott
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Sugar Ray Leonard
8. Mickey Walker
9. Tommy Hearns
10. Jack Britton
[/TD]
[TD]Lightweights:



1. Benny Leonard

2. Joe Gans
3. Roberto Duran
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Aaron Pryor
6. Jack McAuliffe
7. Packey McFarland
8. Barney Ross
9. Tony Canzoneri
10* Pernell Whitaker

10*
George "Kid" Lavigne



* Tied
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Featherweights:

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Jem Driscoll
3. Terry McGovern
4. Alexis Arguello
5. Willie Pep
6. Abe Attell
7. George Dixon
8. Sandy Saddler
9. Johnny Dundee
10. Kid Chocolate
[/TD]
[TD]Bantamweights:

1. Terry McGovern
2. Eder Jofre
3. Jimmy Barry
4. George Dixon
5. Pete Herman
6. Carlos Zarate
7. Ruben Olivares
8. Panama Al Brown
9. Kid Williams
10. Johnny Coulon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Flyweights:



1. Jimmy Barry

2. Jimmy Wilde
3. Pascual Perez
4. Pancho Villa
5. Fidel LaBarba
6. Frankie Genaro
7. Benny Lynch
8. Midget Wolgast
9. Johnny Buff

10. Peter Kane

[/TD]
[TD]Pound-For-Pound:

1. Bob Fitzsimmons
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
4. Sam Langford
5. Charley Mitchell
6. Henry Armstrong
7. Stanley Ketchel
8. Jack Dempsey
9. Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
10. Harry Greb
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

 

God, what a moron... I had forgotten just how terrible he really was

Those lists are the pits

Indefensible crap

 

Even if you were to just completely ignore the fucking gigantic technical advances from John L. Sullivan to Jack Dempsey and From Jack Dempsey to Rocky Marciano to Ali to whomever and you were just rating guys based on level of dominance/success over their own peers without any thought of mythical stuff like "Dempsy/Foreman", those lists would still be awful

 

The title of the thread had me thinking the question concerned listing your favorite Oscar loss.

 

I'm actually a little bit angry reading those lists:giggle:

This guy makes a meager leaving peddling this crap

ANYBODY can be a boxing writer

 

Is this possibly a pseudonym of Ramone? Or rather, vice versa.

 

Ramonza? Didn't he pick Gene Tunney over Lennox Lewis? ::

 

Nah, that was the topic steve_dave started where Ramonza left in disgust

Dude legit believed that Jack Johnson would whup a guy like Lewis, though

Reading through some old TAA threads, he had some rather unpleasant views on things... he was nice to me, but some of his opinions are the kind you would normally ascribe to a jerk

 

that guy was a creep

 

The Samoan thing and his views on women and the poor were pretty odd

 

I must have missed all that, don't remember it at all. What did he say? He was always cool to me, I just found his love for the real-old timers a bit absurd, but harmless. I had no idea about the other shit.

 

I never noticed it much at the time but Neil never liked him and had called him a creep before... I was just goofing off reading the board one day and caught a few surprising things... A lot of holier-than-thou stuff and then a flat out declaration of Samoans as a lazy, gutless race of people which was surprising not only in its rigidity but indignant in response to Neil questioning it (the exchange occurred between them)

 

I do recall some pretty disheartening convos about Tyson with the guy... He struck me as a fortunate person who legit believes that no outside forces or people shaped his current existence...

 

Exactly the same for me, he seemed absurd but harmless. Didn't get any of the other stuff, maybe I didn't frequent TAAA much at the time.

 

World English Dictionary
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
<TBODY>[TR="class: tr1"]
[TD="class: td1, colspan: 2"]improve (ɪmˈpruːv) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr2"]
[TD="class: td2, colspan: 2"]— vb [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: tr3"]
[TD="class: td3n1, width: 1%, align: right"]1. [/TD]
[TD="class: td3n2"]to make or become better in quality; ameliorate [/TD]
[/TR]
</TBODY>[/TABLE]

 

Some people prefer the old fighters. Some prefer the new ones. There is a mix.

Based on this hearsay i'll go with the guys I've never seen.

 

same

 

I remember these too. He seemed like a nice fellow, but he did believe in racial theories about different nations. Also he didn't believe in mental illnesses at all, he seemed to think that they are excuses that weak-minded people use

 

tell tu hermana to ameliorate deez nuts

 

I've never read it but there's a book out called 'The Arc of boxing' basically arguing that technique improved for a long time then plateaued then regressed. That's more or less my take

 

Yup. Exactly

 

Same here... My eyes drew me to the same conclusion

i do think that will start to reverse itself in the coming decades as new people from new places take up the sport