Does Camacho's speed and movement give JMM a lot of trouble or does JMM excel against him with his counterpunching and ring IQ?
I'd pick Camacho by UD at 130 and 135. The higher the weight goes, the more roided Marquez becomes, so his odds improve.
I'll take JMM. If he could time Pacquiao, he would catch Camacho too and his cleaner, harder shots would prevail over Camacho's flurries
No, he wouldn't. You truly underrate Camacho. I don't think you've ever favored him in a MM. You picked Loma over him also, despite the fact that Hector's resume of top wins is leaps and bounds ahead of Loma's. Take away Marquez having Pac's number, and what do you have? Marquez couldn't even look impressive against Smoke Gainer, and he got outboxed by Chris John.. and this was PRIME Marquez. Hector beating him is not a stretch at all.
Marquez was a glorified Ken Norton. No, I'm not saying Norton was as good Marquez, but I am saying that both are overrated by virtue of having a much greater fighter's number. There's nothing in Marquez's body of work outside of Pac that suggests he'd put Camacho in some shell. Guys who put Camacho on the defense include Rosario, Chavez, Trinidad. Juan Manuel Marquez did NOT have the firepower of those 3 guys. Well, not naturally, anyway. Juiced off his ass in the final Pac fight, maybe.
Here's another reason why Marquez loses to Camacho: Marquez couldn't cut the ring to save his life. It's one thing when you have a fast southpaw who's an ATTACKING fighter like Pac. That gives Marquez countering opportunities. It's entirely different when you're dealing with a fast southpaw who's a counterpuncher himself, rather than an attacker like Pac. "If he could do it to Pac, he could do it to Camacho" is rather lazy logic, and doesn't account for the fact that Pac and Camacho had totally different styles. Rosario and Chavez, those guys were adept at cutting the ring. Chavez is a top 3-5 ring cutter of all time, and Rosario was VERY quick coming forward, and could close distance faster than Marquez. Cutting the ring was NOT a strength of JMM. Marquez putting prime Camacho in a shell early on is total and utter fantasy based on NO evidence outside of Camacho hate, and of course, "newer fighter always wins" logic.
I don't think it is power per se that turns Camacho into a pacifist, he had an excellent chin. The problem for him was losing exchanges. JMM didn't have huge punch, but he hit hard, had great accuracy and timing. With those attributes I believe he'd get the better of exchanges. Nobody is suggesting that he would dominate Camacho in Chavez or Tito style. Camacho was a guy who at his best looked astonishing, but just as often he was lackluster.
That last sentence is pretty hypocritical, don't you think? You defend Fury to the ends of the Earth for a lackluster performance (Loma too). Yet waste no time bringing them up for Camacho. That same statement can be used for Fury, only Fury has far LESS outstanding performances than Hector, and a much bigger blunder on his belt. But back to the topic: Camacho wouldn't be trying to get to an exchange battle with Marquez, and that's exactly what Marquez's issue would be. If Camacho had (inarguably) something that Pac lacked, it's this... he had a superb jab. Maybe the third best southpaw jab of all time behind Hagler and Whitaker. Pac was never a jabber. Camacho's jab alone would throw off Marquez's rhythm.
I've always maintained that there's only 4-5 guys I'd make a favorite over Camacho at 130: Floyd, Chavez, Arguello, Pac, and maybe Nelson, but maybe not Nelson.
All I have ever questioned is that on some occasions we base MM picks on these single lackluster performances whereas on other times they are forgotten completely. Imo neither approach is the correct one. But I won't explain my logic for the trillionth time. Here, I think you have made an excellent case for Camacho. I maintain my take that JMM wins. Obviously I hold Marquez to a higher degree than you, and vice versa. I believe we can live it at that without going to personal level where we assume each other's agendas
That's a big reason why I'd favor Camacho. He had a different offensive flow than Pacman and that would make it harder for JMM to counter him. If he did get caught in some exchanges he definitely had the wheels to get out range and force Marquez to chase him.
