Intelligence of a fighter

I am currently reading a book about David Haye (who btw has turned into a very good fighting commentator whose quick with his words, charismatic and has some insight). In the book his trainer Adam Booth had an interesting perspective.

Booth claimed that to be great fighter, he should be either frighteningly intelligent or extremely ignorant. In his opinion Leonard was an example of the former, a guy who could think his way through the worst situations. Duran was his example of the opposite, a guy who knew nothing but fighting was totally fearless and could therefore operate under any situation, not minding at all if he got whacked in progress.

The problem, Booth claimed, for most is that they are somewhere in between and even if the fighter in question can be good, he'll never be great.

As an example he mentioned Audley (who at the time hadn't turned out to be a complete bust). Audley, he claimed, thought he was smart like Leonard, but he wasn't, and he wasn't too brave but got petrified when a punch came to his direction. Haye, he said, seemed to have a mixture of the two characters too, sometimes appearing really intelligent, others fearless, but not with a clear identity.

What do you make of this theory? Does it work at all and can you come up with good examples verifying or falsifying the theory?

 

That's a retarded assessment of Duran by Booth.

Duran was one of the most cerebral fighters of all time.

Yes, it's true he had insane natural fighting instincts that cant be taught, and yes he had the physical gifts to back those instincts, but everything about Duran's style was highly strategic, even if brutal.

It was only a few years that Duran was in the gym training Mosley, trying to show Shane some of his moves.

You could tell that Shane was just too dumb to comprehend, and didnt have the boxing brain to see the things Duran saw.

So that fucking nobody Adam Booth has a flawed perspective.

 

In the same book Haye mentions that Bernard Hopkins, in his forties, always went to bed before 9 PM and got up around 4 o'clock to go jogging. Sounds pretty dedicated

 

You could see how uncomfortable Mosley is because he wasn’t a true technician like Duran. He got by on his physical gifts. As X pointed out, Duran had incredible physical gifts too but he also had that fighting brain that allowed him to see things that a fighter like Mosley wouldn’t see.

 

Duran is a good choice as the thinking fighter, also Alexis Arguello.

 

Yes, Arguello had an extremely high ring IQ.

 

There are guys who are thinking fighters and there are others who are "afleets" or box-bots like Amir Khan.

Casual observers maybe can't tell the difference but people who follow the sport regularly of course know the difference. I don't think the Leonard and Duran comparison is a good one at all. I haven't read the book but from the blurb posted it sounds like one of those simplistic views of the guy who spends more time on defense and slipping punches as "intelligent" whereas the aggressor is just going on primal instinct without much thought involved.

 

The biggest irony is that Duran had a much better defense than Leonard.

 

Yeah but I do think there are successful boxers with good technique and skill who operate kind of on rote memory like someone who knows a certain dance or song really well. Those guys can show brilliance in the ring but they're not really thinking about it - they've just trained so hard it is second nature.

 

Sure, but to a degree all experienced fighters are like that, just to varying degrees. If their routine isn't working yet they continue to perform it in exactly the same way they're no longer thinking.

 

Are you questioning the "stable legged genius" Khan???

 

I honestly believe Ricardo Mayorga had more ring IQ than Khan.

 

In Calzaghe's book (har har yes slappy disgusting etc etc) he said when everything is boiled down to its rawest elements - a world class fighter is basically one who can comprehend angles and why/when to use them, and that boxing is essentially high-speed, dangerous geometry. You figure that out and you're halfway there.

 

Another example would be Mayweather and Judah. Both physically gifted/athletic, but Floyd knew how to use his gifts to their full potential, whereas Judah did not.

Roy Jones in his prime also had the smarts to use his gifts effectively.

Pernell Whitaker was another extremely gifted yet high IQ fighter.

 

That guy had soooo much potential!

 

"Audley, he claimed, thought he was smart like Leonard, but he wasn't,"

 

Audley and Leonard is a random and totally hilarious comparison

 

I think you have to be intelligent in the ring to be a great fighter. You can be a complete moron outside of it, but you have to have smarts in boxing. Same thing with other athletes in their sports. LeBron is a physical freak but also an intelligent basketball player. Jordan likewise.

 

This. Every single one of the all time greats had a high ring IQ. Just some higher than others. Reel off a list of the top 20 all time greats, and tell me which one wasn't an elite thinker in the ring.

Then there's guys like Mosley, and Oscar, who fell short of being all time greats because they lacked ring IQ. They didn't have LOW ring IQs, but it wasn't especially high either.

Then you got total morons like Zab, Khan, and Jermain Taylor, who had physical gifts but no brains to back them. And we saw that none of three came anywhere near sniffing greatness.

 

The interesting part was that Audley viewed himself as a smart guy

 

I believe this is true and this might especially be the case with "born fighters"

 

And maybe ring 'intelligence' is just knowing more dances? Floyd knew a whole bunch...you try out a few different ones until you eliminate the problem & we call that 'intelligence'.

 

He used to be one, now he is a swell chap

 

Yup. Floyd is dumb as dog shit but at the same time is a boxing savant.

 

I disagree.

I would argue that every elite fighter (even dumbfucks like Khan) have an "innate fighting ability" compared to the average joe.

What separates fighters is their ability to analyze and strategize.