Is Chavez A Definitive Top-20 All-Timer?

CDogg says unquestionably yes. I say unquestionably no.

 

Let he who is correct, cast the first vote ::

 

I'm thinking probably so but i'd have to actually make a list to see if 20 others should be ahead of him first. I'm too lazy to do that right now.

 

No f'in way

 

Submit your list!

 

too lazy.. but I might if there's enough demand (I suspect cdogg will second your motion shortly)

 

Typist

 

:notallthere:

 

:laugh11:

 

::

 

I'll have to come back to this but made a quick (unfinished) list off the top of my head. It's in no order and contains no heavyweights or guys who fought before man discovered fire.


Robinson
Charles
Armstrong
Monzon
Greb
Leonard
Pacquiao
Duran
Pep
Jones Jr.
Hagler
Arguello
Napoles
Griffith

 

I could come up with ten guys at Lightweight alone (where Chavez was a beast) who have him licked!

 

Seriously, I don't see how he isn't

Better poll question would be "Is he better than JMM?"

Anyone who thinks he isn't is a fucking nutter

The only way I can see someone not ranking Chavez in the 15-25 range is if they are denigrating his opposition to an insane degree and if they are denigrating his obvious attributes: Punching accuracy and heaviness, Stamina, Chin, ability to slip punches and parry, his great bodypunching, his incredible ability to apply constant pressure to his opponents

Azabeche Martinez, Ruben Castillo, Roger Mayweather x 2, Rocky Lockridge, Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Rodolfo Aguilar, Jose Luis Ramirez, Meldrick Taylor, Hector Camacho, Greg Haugen, Terrence Alli, Lonnie Smith... Outstanding quality there

In old age, you have Tony Lopez, Joey Gamache, a draw with MAGO

During his peak years, there is some good stay-busy filler in there too with second-tier guys like Sammy Fuentes, Dwight Pratchett, Danilo Cabrerea, Frankie Mitchell, Jamie Balboa, John Duplessis, Angel Hernandez ... bunch of solid veterans there and Chavez was fighting them essentially to stay sharp and he was beating them senseless

 

come on

thats bullshit

let's see THAT list, Ramonza

 

among the top 20 greatest boxers ever how many failed to defeat a top 50 or even perhaps top 100 all timer in their career?

 

You're looking at this all backward, CDogg. It isn't a criticism of Chavez, or anyone under-rating him. It's looking at the competition available for that top-20, & seeing how great --- how impossibly great, in some cases --- those candidates are. I don't see any way how Chavez shapes up to the first 15-20.

 

Well, just a moment to clarify, I'm talking about ten guys I'd rank above Chavez at Lightweight --- not ten who would necessarily rank above him all-time, when you take into account Chavez's accolades elsewhere in Boxing. I'll still present ten I think deserve a higher ranking at 135...

Duran
Williams
Whitaker
Gans
Ross
McLarnin
Ortiz
Armstrong
Leonard
Canzoneri

 

so barney ross and jimmy mclarnin > chavez?

whoa

 

you really think a superb technician like barney ross would struggle with rocky lockridge???

 

I know. They werent even on Showtime.

 

though mosley never made lightweight on the day of the fight as many listed had to, he would have folded a few of those fellows listed in half.

 

anyone saying no really knows nothing about boxing.

 

Hard to say. I believed in Mosley as an excellent LW and he would be unfairly bigger --- but an awful lmnt can happen when you step that far up in class, & Mosley sure would be because his LW competition was pretty forgettable. Id sure be interested to see it.

 

Charles, Louis, Robinson, Moore, Greb, Langford, Ali, Armstrong, Duran, Whitaker...a top-20 can get mighty tight, mighty quick.

 

please dont lump in harry greb and sam langford with a legend like Chavez. You wanna bitch about chavez opposition then bring up those two? haha.

 

I dont remember bitching about Chavez's opposition, but to something more pressing, did you just insinuate Chavez CV is more impressive than Langfords & Grebs?

 

regardless of what CV means, yes.

 

::

Well, it more or less is a synonym for resume, but I will just say I strongly disagree. I wasnt lumping them in with Chavez either, you neednt worry. Just the opposite --- I was stating they were too good to be lumped in with him, frankly.

 

I'm half amused/half stunned that anybody on the planet would see Chavez resume and think it isn't as good as Sam Langford's. That is Monte Cox level menudo.

 

I may be right, you may be crazy ::