Is Inoue greater and better than Chocolatito?

Thoughts? Both are obviously gonna be first ballot guys.

 

gonzalez resume reads differently if he didnt get fucked in the second estrada fight, and the first rungvisai fight.

 

Speaking on first ballot guys. Did you feel Rafael Marquez deserved to be inducted into the Hof?

I feel like being JMM bro influenced their decision. It sounds cool having two bros in the Hof.

 

rafael marquez was deserving, and it was a weak class of candidates that year.

 

A year back I thought Chocolatito was greater but now I think Inoue has finally made his case after sweeping the BW division and made easy work off Fulton. Inoue will more than likely take his second undisputed title at 122 and continue to dominate at least one more division afterwards.

It’s still frustrating knowing that Inoue could have fought Chocolatito and Gallo and likely might have been victorious but it wasn’t to be.

 

Inoue has a long way to go in order to surpass Chocolatito in terms of legacy IMO.

You could argue he's a better fighter, but his resume and overall ambition still leaves a lot to be desired in my opinion.

 

Inoue's AMBITION Leaves a Lot to Be Desired???...



REED

 

There's sooooooooo many other guys who deserve to see the Hall over Rafa Marquez. If his brother wasn't JM, I don't think he'd be considered. He was not a great fighter. The Hall is just a fucking popularity contest.

 

Inoue and it s not very close imo

 

Disagreed, you dont beat Johnston, Austin and Vasquez if youre not a great fighter.

People forget it, but at that point, many were wondering if he wasnt the best marquez after all

 

Its been forgotten in the hype, but he took an extremely easy route to the top. Hernandez was an extremely weak titlist at the time - and off memory, the other champs who held a belt around then were Nietes, Ioka and Chocolatito. None of whom, Inoue even considered fighting; actively turning down a fight with Chocolatito. Then, he skipped 112, one of best divisions in all of boxing at the time.

Now, I'm not denying moving up two weights to fight the divisional number one isn't badass as fuck, but moving to a division where Omar Narvaez at 39 and conveniently skipping past one of the best divisions in the sport isn't IMO.

Then he proceeded to only fight person in the top ten - that being an old Kohei Kono, who was ranked at ten - while Cuadras, Estrada, Gonzalez, Rungvisai, Ancajas, Tete and Yafai were all active and ranked in the top ten while Inoue was number one. He fought none of them.

Sure, he moved up and entered the tournament but the context of the time has been forgotten. The competition of tournament was extremely poor. McDonnell was absolutely dead at the weight and everyone knew it, was hopeless and Inoue opened as +2750 favourite against Rodriguez.

Not to mention at that time, Donaire was seen as gone and extremely lucky. His win against Burnett was a complete fluke incident which happened so early on, it was impossible to know how it would end, and then he got a late replacement in Young who wasn't even the man in his own house. Not to mention being in his mid-late 30s already. And while Inoue can't help that the division is poor, he could've made a much greater effort to fight either Rigo, Oubaali or Casimero when either of them were relevant. Instead he fought a few Moloneys and Dipshits.

Granted, last week was pretty damn ambitious, but even then, does it really make up for all of the previous stuff?

 

From what I read, Inoue did offer a fight to Chocolatito who turned down it down complaining about the money. Not sure of how serious of an offer it was though. But yeah, pretty disappointing how we did not get the opportunity to see any of these fights.

 

Inoue was signed to fight casimero. At Mandalay bay. I bought tickets

Da fuck are you talking about ?

 

Look I wrote that at three in the morning while I was high as fuck, if I've misremembered something I'm happy to eat crow but from what I can remember reading myself, basically zero genuine talks ever took place between Inoue and Gonzalez, and Inoue never tried to get Casimero after COVID stopped their first attempt at a fight.

 

blame that fuckery on it being 3am.

you criticizing his competition from 2014, when he was 21 years old? really?

 

Inoue Wanted ALL The Smoke @ 115...

REED's 1st Time Seeing Inoue was When HBO Flew Him and Others to America for a Triple Header Billed "Super Fly", Back in 2017...Inoue Stopped Antonio Nieves, Juan Francisco Estrada Eeeked a CLOSE Ass Decision from Carlos Cuadras and Chocolatito Got STRETHCED By Sor Rungvisai, All on the Same Card...

Chocolatito Being VIOLENTLY Disposed of Pretty Much SHAT On HBO''s Plans, As He was the FACE of HBO's Lower Weight Hopes...Once That Fell By The Wayside, Inoue Moved Up to 118, Became Undisputed and Now He's Exactly 1 Fight Away from Replicating That Feat @ 122...

Certainly NO Lack of Ambition from Inoue Since 2017, @ the Very Least...He Wouldn't Have Flown to the States or Moved Up 2 Additional Weight Classes if Ambition was an Issue...




REED

 

He was a champion in 2014. So he deserves to be treated like one.

 

I am not buying that a man who had seven title defences, and only fought one top ten fighter - who was ranked tenth, and coming off a loss - wanted all of the smoke.

Sure, other fighters lost. But having fought none of the top dogs across his first two weights, and skipping the toughest division nearby completely shows a lack of ambition. As does his recent slew of poor opponents prior to Fulton.

Inoue lucked the fuck out with what happened to his competition at 118. Paul Butler did literally nothing to deserve his title.

 

yea i was at that card. hard to imagine anyone of the other guys who fought that night being able to fuck with inoue.

but you got guys here claiming he ducked oubali and casimero (who he signed to fight)

coulda sworn the donaire win was discounted, despite him destroying oubali, hows that work?

but who cares about that, inoue didnt take on roman gonzalez in his 4th or 5 pro fight.

 

There's Literally NATHAN To "Buy" Bruh...

Inoue had NEVER Fought In America Previously, Yet GLADLY Participated In HBO's "Super Fly" Campaign, Even Fought as the Opening Bout on the Televised Cared...That, In and Of ITSELF, is a Clear Show of AMBITION....

"Recent Slew of Poor Opposition Prior to Fulton"???...Are You SERIOUSLY CRITICIZING Inoue for Becoming UNDISPUTED @ 118???...He Literally Beat EVERY Beltholder in the Division for THEIR Belt, Yet That WASN'T "Ambitious" Enough for You???...

Titles in 4 Weight Classes, Skipped a 5th Altogether, Yet LACKS Ambition???




REED

 

Thing Is, You Can NITPICK Any Fighter in History if You WANT To, Just Don't Be SELECTIVE About the Shit...

If Naoya Inoue LACKS Ambition, REED is Dying to See Examples of AMBITIOUS Fighters, Because He GUARANfuckingTEES They Can Be NITPICKED Just as Easily...




REED

 

Completely agree. For a guy that has been at the top for so long, his resume is pretty bad, if not pathetic

 

Chocolatito Not Pleased With Offer For Inoue, Prefers Cuadras

 

Hard to believe Chocolatito when he claims he believes he'd receive more money for a Cuadras rematch than what was offered for a Inoue fight. I can't know for sure but seems to me like it's more Chocolatito that wasn't too keen of fighting Inoue than the other way around.

 

Can you not fucking read?

I never claimed he ducked anyone. I've been saying he's been happy taking easy fights. Nor did I once say he wouldn't have won every single one of those fights.

But the actual FACT is that before he moved up to bantamweight the only time he ever defended his titles against a top ten fighter was an old man, coming off a loss who was ranked tenth.

But hey, if you're happy with simply believing he can beat everyone ever and never actually watching him do it, by all means continue.

 

So fighting the truly fear inducing
Antonio Nieves is a sign of ambition? Yeah, not in my book it's not. Not when there was a nine other top fighters he could've faced instead.

I value quality opponents over titles any day of the weak. And Inoue has somehow managed to end up with all of the titles despite missing half of the division's best.
Sure, I'm not saying how he dealt with Donaire in the rematch wasn't impressive, but I am saying spending two years fighting saying fighting Jason Moloney, Michael Dasmarinas and Aran Dipaen instead of Oubaali, Rigo or Casimero isn't. And then, fighting Paul fuckin Butler who was literally given his title is not particularly ambitious, in my opinion.

In fact, fighting Fulton at 122 is probably the most ambitious thing Inoue has ever done.

 

I believe him. Inoue at 115 was not the attraction he is now.

Iirc, Cuadras vs Gonzalez I did very good numbers for a super fly fight, it's no wonder why Gonzalez would want to do it again.

And Gonzalez is not a fighter who has any history of avoiding hard fights. He's clearly shown he'll fight whoever he can get in the ring.

 

Look Bruh, NOBODY Gives a Fuck What You're "Buying" Or What's In "Your Book"...

By Your OWN Admission, You Posted a DRUNKEN Ass 3AM Rant and You've Spent the Last 24 Hours Trying to CLEAN Your Mess Up...Moving Goalposts and INTENTIONALLY Misdirecting What REED's Said to You AIN'T Helping Your Case...Sorry...

When Did REED EVER Say Antonio Nieve was a "Sign of Ambition"???...WHERE???...You're 17 Years Old Using a LAME, PLAYED OUT Ass Debating Tactic; SPARE REED Your Bullshit...REED Said the FACT Inoue PARTICIAPTED in HBO's Plans was a "Sign of His Ambition"...Again, He'd NEVER Fought on American Soil Before, Yet Once He Got Wind of HBO Devising a Tournament of Sorts, Inoue was ALL the Way IN...That's Called AMBITION...

It's NOT Inoue's Fault HBO's Plans DISSOLVED the Moment Rungvisai KO'ed Chocolatito...

Not Sure WHY You Keep Harping on Oubaali When it's ALREADY Been Pointed Out to You Inoue TWICE Beat the Man that OWNED Oubaali Head to Head, Once by KO...It's ALSO Been Pointed Out to You Inoue Made an Offer to Casimero....It's ALSO Been Pointed Out to You Chocolatito DECLINED an Offer w/Inoue...Is that NOT Registering???...Is Offering a Contract to a Fighter NOT a Sign of "Ambition"???...

Inoue Moved UP to 118 BELTLESS, Beat EVERY SINGLE BELTHOLDER Within the Division, Became UNDISfuckingPUTED In that Division, yet it Still WASN'T "Ambitious" Enough for 17 Year Old George Crowcroft in the UK...

Got It...



REED

 

Well, I get George's point to an extent. It's highly disappointing that Inoue didn't fought Chocolatito (even though an offer was made), Estrada, Rung or even a Cuadras. I don't follow the lower weights extensively, so there might be a good reason why for each case, but it gives a vibe of not trying to push yourself too hard (even though I think he beat everyone of them convincingly). I like Inoue a lot but currently, his resume is pretty thin for a 4 (5?) division champ there's no denying