It´s not just heavyweight that is crap, it is boxing..

Make some Top Ten lists for all the other weight classes. You cannot use guys like Martinez, Pacquiao, Williams and Marquez for multiple weight classes. Then we discuss how much depth there is at each weight.

:crafty:

 

Also, take a fight from any era where #5 ranked contender takes on #8 ranked contender. How many of these bouts and performances were truly great?

 

:wack:

 

I guess you wanted to use this one :TLC:

 

Welterweight has been shit now for at least the past 10 years, with no dominant champions, no resident welterweights, just a bunch of hobos moving from lower divisions, or dropping down from higher divisions. Now, its gotten even worse with this catch-weight horseshit, loaded gloves, EPO.....

 

160-175 is stacked

 

140 is very, very strong. Welter is shaping up decently.

 

160, really?

1. Martinez
2. Pavlik

Then who?

Pirog, Sturm, Sylvester, Lemieux, Golovkin?

175

1. Pascal
2. Dawson
3. Hopkins
4. Cloud

Then who?

Shumenov, Brähmer, Erdei, Cleverly, Henry?

You telling me these guys are better fighters than Adamek, Haye or Povetkin?

I give you 168, one of the deepest division and you´d still have to rank Stieglitz at the end of the top ten.

People rarely do top ten lists anymore, because there are barely five elite/very good fighters in every division.

 

Nah......its weaker than the division it preceded, which means it is going backwards and therefore is shit.:boring:

 

Hopkins
Pascal
Dawson
Cloud
Cleverley
Braehmer
Ward
Dirrell
Froch
Kessler
Abraham ::
Bute
DeGale
Pavlik
Pirog
Martinez
Sturm
Le Moo

Off the top of my head. Stacked.

 

160, 168 and 175 are three weight divisions, not one.

..and those are only 18 fighters and you had to reach for Brähmer and DeGale.

 

168 is strong, 175 is OK.

160 dead from the chest down.

140 has interesting fights, intriguing matchups, but only 1 of its two really big recent fights was any good, and even at that it was only any good cos both fighters were limited.

 

Brahmer is a world champion and DeGale is an Olympic gold medallist, how is that reaching? Right now the talent is spread over 3 divisions, with the majority at 168 but it will all amalgamate soon, most of these guys will face a huge chunk of the other guys in the list, with the exception of Hopkins and Pavlik if he's hanging around park benches in shepherds bush

 

Povetkin, Solis and Fraudley are Olympic gold medalists, too.

Brähmer sucks. Would the heavyweight division suck less, if it had four interim titlists? :dunno:

 

The total negativity towards boxing on this forum is becoming quite grating. Everyone sucks. World champions suck, Gold medalists suck.....

Quite grating....ray:

 

I havent seen alot of Brahmer so I'll take your word for it, Solis is a good fighter, a freak accident doesn't change that. Harrison, yeah well...::

Still, DeGale has already proven himself better than the likes of Harrison IMO, and if you're going to include Le Moo then DeGale should be there. I've left guys like Johnson and Sturm out too, who whilst nit elite are good gatekeepers, that weight region is stacked, El. Come on man.

 

I don't agree with you often but you're bang on, it's getting fucking ridiculous now

 

Me and you can just enjoy it together, Slice.:Thumbs: You're invited for cyber beers round my house to watch the fights between De Gale, Martinez, Ward, Bute, Froch, Dawson, etc. Maybe Irish can come, too. The rest can watch them together, suck lemons & moan about how much all the world class boxers in the world are shite at boxing.:shit:

 

Top man hut :Thumbs: as long as they're cyber beers and not cyber ciders :::stir:

But no, seriously, the constant negativity is getting silly, I'm glad other people on here feel the same as me, it really isn't that bleak guys, come on

 

I understand what you're saying, but on the other hand, if the argument is that there's not that much talent in a division, then just stating a guy's credentials in that division in question doesn't really prove anything.

I mean, if there's four titles then somebody's gotta hold them.

At one point, Samuel Peter was holding a heavyweight title.

Bringing it back to the division(s) in question...what exactly is Pavlik's status right now? He will have not fought in over a year, and you could make the case he hasn't really beaten a top fighter since Taylor (who's chin and stamina couldn't even hold up at 168 and are why he's now retired).

Abraham has lost two Super Six fights in a row, and did so in rather poor fashion. So what exactly is his status at 168?

Furthermore, what exactly is Andre Dirrell's standing given his exit from the tournament? He didn't even enter the ring against Ward.

Kessler at least looks like he's going to return and have a meaningful fight against Bute.

 

Okay, here we go, since nobody will do it.

1. Wladimir
2. Vitali
3. Haye
4. Adamek
5. Chambers
6. Povetkin
7. Thompson
8. Solis
9. Peter
10. Boytsov

1. Cunningham
2. Huck
3. Lebedev
4. Jones
5. Wlodarczyk
6. Hernandez
7. Afolabi
8. Frenkel
9. Kayode
10. Green

1. Pascal
2. Dawson
3. Hopkins
4. Cloud
5. Erdei
6. Syllakh
7. Shumenov
8. Cleverly
9. Henry
10. Brähmer

1. Froch
2. Ward
3. Kessler
4. Bute
5. Dirrell
6. Abraham
7. Andrade
8. Johnson
9. Bika
10. Stieglitz

1. Martinez
2. Pavlik
3. Sturm
4. Pirog
5. Sylvester
6. Geale
7. N´Jikam
8. Lemieux
9. Golovkin
10. Guerrero

1. Williams
2. Dzinziruk
3. Cotto
4. Margarito
5. Cintron
6. Angulo
7. Kirkland
8. Lara
9. Alvarez
10. Martirosyan

1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Berto
4. Mosley
5. Ortiz
6. Jones
7. Malignaggi
8. Senchenko
9. Zaveck
10. Brook

So how are these weight classes all much better and deeper than heavyweight? ig:

 

Not negativity with me, you either think all of boxing is shit or not. Heavyweight isn´t any worse or better than all the other weight classes.

 

Dirrell is sparring with George Groves in preparation for the DeGale fight, so I imagine he'll be in the ring soon enough. Pavlik is out of rehab so I'm guessing he'll be fighting soon too, I can see Kelly being a gatekeeper at 168 from now on though

 

You're making the mistake of breaking them down into divisions when I said 160-175 is the stacked region. 175 and 160 are top heavy, good divisions, but put them together with 168 and it is a deep pool, outside Wlad and Vitali that region FAR surpasses heavyweight, that can't even be an argument

 

If I put heavyweight together with cruiserweight and light-heavyweight that talent pool also far surpasses middleweight alone. :Steve-Dave/MMA:

 

whats hurting boxing are the cliques and the networks and the sanctioning bodies- and the relationships which exist between them.

Saul Alvarez is a fine young fighter. But he is not the man at 154, if, for no other reason, he doesn't fight there. He fights at 150 which means his "opponents" do too.

There is nothing really bad about the HW division. But the feudal nature of the sport means we have certain networks and certain analysts telling us there is.

Whats the longest individual reign at 147 of any champ since Shane Mosley first beat ODLH? How many defences did they have? What was the last unification bout?

 

Heavyweight is a unique division and let's not pretend otherwise, obviously the guys can't move about to get bigger fights etc, which is why I don't like comparing it to other divisions, and why I never put heavyweights in p4p lists. If you're a heavyweight you're either in a good division or not and that's your lot, which is a shame, especially in the Klitschkos case as I think they could more than hold their own in any era

 

Some top bouts are gonna take place in the near future, from
140 to 168. I can't wait. Boxing rules!!!

I hope a new Lewis or Tyson emerges in the next few years at Heavyweight too. Heavyweight boxing needs a new spark.

 

The heavyweight division outside of the Klitschko's is incredibly weak.

When you have top contenders who's best wins have come against 2009 versions of Jameel McCline (Arreola) and Monte Barrett (Solis), you have a weak division.

 

What about contenders whose best wins have come against Chris Byrd, Jason Estrada, and Eddie Chambers?

Or Contenders whose best wins have come against Sam Peter, Alex Dimitrenko and Calvin Brock?

It isn't THAT bad.

Most of the anti-heavyweight guff has the distressing, and perhaps even intended effect of deflecting away from all the other shit that goes on in boxing.