I think its now kinda ridiculous to put Josh in a MM with a guy like DLH, Tszyu, Cotto, ect. This is a more realistic question. Could he beat Zab? Given how easy Josh is to nail with straight lefts, I dunno. Zab was a lot more explosive and powerful than Regis. Not as durable, obviously, but a lot more offensively dangerous. If Josh can push it late, then Zab's stamina would fail, but theres a very real chance Judah could end it before the late rounds.
I don't think last night should massively impact overall view of Taylor at 140 unless he moves up and still performs that poorly. Even then, I think that'd just prove Taylor has regressed, rather than was just not very good from the start. Even after an extremely poor performance last night, he was still a better fighter than Zab. But yeah, he isn't on the level of those guys. He could compete with them, sure. But he isn't winning any of them.
Josh is a more consistent fighter than Judah. I'm not prepared to say he's better on the occasions that Judah was actually on his game. I dont think there's anyone on Josh's resume i would take over Judah. The only question would be Regis, but even Regis hasn't done enough in his career to favor him over prime Judah. Ramirez, Baranchyk, inactive Postol, no reason to favor those guys over young Judah. Moreover, Zab was pretty deadly against fellow southpaws. He seemed to struggle more against orthodox fighters. The Corley win doesn't look very impressive to you now, but at the time, it was impressive how how Zab handled Corley, as it was considered to be a 50-50 fight going in. In fact, across all the forums, most guys were taking Corley.
Remember, this is a guy who was ahead of peak Floyd through 5 rounds. At a time when Floyd had gone a few years without dropping any rounds. Between Josh and Regis, I dont think either one would take any rounds off Floyd. TBH, I think Taylor and Prograis are mainly the product of a weaker 140. There's no evidence that they're better than Zab. Let's not forget, even a badly faded Judah managed to squeeze past Matthysse and managed to give Garcia a tough fight. Let's see where Josh is when hes badly faded. One thing I know for sure, Zab is never ever losing to Catterrall. Even on an off night.
I wouldn't take anyone Taylor's beaten over Judah either, but I definitely wouldn't take anyone Zab beat at 147 over Josh. Taylor has accomplished a lot more there than Zab did. Regardless, Zab didn't stop anyone of quality at 140. He wouldn't start with Taylor. And he definitely wouldn't do it early IMO. And I'd put Zab's success against Floyd down to his style, not his overall ability. Zab did better against Floyd than virtually anyone would for the next decade, it doesn't mean he was better than them. He was one of the few people who had enough athleticism to land on Floyd early. Once Mayweather had figured him out, he walked Zab down and timed every rush. It's just that singular attribute Zab had which let him do so well against Mayweather.
I can see why you'd think this era is weaker than Zab's, but really, Zab didn't beat the best guy of his era. Moreover, he lost in two. The rest of his resume at 140 isn't as good as Taylor's is. Unless you rate Corley pretty highly, which I don't. Good, solid fighter, but he lost to literally everybody. Witter is a decent win, though. Now I look back, for some reason I thought Prograis had stopped Barranchyk in six but he didn't, he stopped Relikh. His resume essentially just Indongo and a close loss to Taylor.
Well, this era is objectively worse. At the time when Judah fought Tszyu, 140 was considered one of the best divisions in the sport. Not really so nowadays. Sharmba Mitchell would have beaten the crap outta Ramirez, for example. Taylor isn't more accomplished when you consider than Zab was a two division champion, and undisputed at 147. He beat the man who beat the man who beat the man who beat the man. I think you're overrating how accomplished Josh is. That and, people in general have started to underrate Judah.
Judah has wins over: Witter, Ward, Millet, Bergman, Omar Weis, Corley, Spinks, Cosme Rivera, Mathysse. The Cosme Rivera win is worth noting because he blew out Rivera, and Rivera then went out to almost knock out Andre Berto. Zab's resume is actually not that bad at all. He's become underrated. Beating Prograis and Ramirez only goes but so far. Its two solid wins, but it is nothing all that special.
Yeah, this era is worse. I didn't say otherwise... I said this era being worse doesn't really mean much when Zab barely fought anyone of his era bar Kostya, and he got annihlated. And this era being worse, doesn't mean the best of this era is worse than the second best of that era. That is, if Zab truly was the second best, and considering if he was, he was miles behidn the number one. Reread what I said, Taylor has accomplished more than Zab did at 140. I don't see how that's in any way debatable. Prograis, Ramirez and Postol are better than anybody Zab beat at 140. The people who thought 140 at that time was one of the deeper divisions in the sport must've been high off their tits.
I misread then. Yes, Taylor has done more at 140. But worth noting, prime Judah only lost to Tszyu at 140. As for that last paragraph, you're calling the whole boxing world high. Ask anyone, 140 was thought of as a very hot division at the time of that unification. 20 years from now, people might look back and think of Taylor's 140 resume as mediocre. Most these guys will be forgotten by then, which is the danger of recency bias. We think of Josh's resume as good now, might not look that way in a few decades. For example, no one remembers Omar Weis in 2022, but in 2002 he was considered a very solid guy. He was actually considered a highly dangerous opponent for Judah coming off the Tszyu loss.
Yeah, I'm saying it shouldn't have been. Absolutely no chance should it have been. I thought everybody knew Tsyzu's time at 140 was spent in a time where the division was historically weak. Better than now like, but still weak. I doubt people who study boxing history will forget about somebody like Prograis or Ramirez. They night forget about somebody like Matias, or even Catterall, but Ramirez and Regis have been apart of fights that have defined how 140 looks right now. Sure, recency bias exists, but I've never been one to really fall into it and recency bias is every bit as a problem as looking at things with rose tinted spectacles. Regardless, I do think Taylor would beat Judah and I don't think there's any real chance of Judah taking Taylor out early. Now, I wouldn't give Josh a prayer of nearing what Zab did at 147 if he carries on like he did last night. But as I say, that would mean he's regressed rather than he was always mediocre.
Yeah, 140 was one of the strongest divisions in the early to mid-2000s for a few years. Overrated though in hindsight with the strength partly being due to how piss poor most of the other divisions and the sport in general were becoming. But at one time or another you had Tszyu, Mayweather, Cotto, Hatton, Witter, Harris, Mitchell, Corley, Judah with dangerous punchers like Bailey and Torres and industrious toilers like N'Dou and Tackie. No great shakes historically but solid for the time. At the time you probably only really had bantam with Sahaprom, Rafa, Austin, Too Sharp etc and feather/super feather with Pac and the three amigos, Chi, John, Harrison, Polo etc that were comparable or better.
