Lennox Lewis's legacy

Anyone who knows me, knows that I don't care for Lennox Lewis. I believe he was given too much credit for his accomplishments and overrated.

Now that he's been retired for such a long time, I think we can look back at his career and more accurately rate his place amongst the great heavyweight champions in this sport's history.

Let me begin by saying that although I was never fond of his boxing, he is a great champion. Only when compared to the greatest of heavyweight champions does he fall short in my opinion.

Let's look at his biggest fights.

In his early career, his first big fight was against Razor Ruddock. He won very impressively. But some things bother me about this performance.

First the Ruddok he fought obviously did not have the same chin as the one we saw against Tyson.

If Ruddock was past his prime or not, the fight still ends in early round fashion which is not something you want to define yourself with.

In other words, while very impressive to watch, it really doesn't prove much in terms of overal great boxing ability.

Still impressive and certainly he can't be faulted for it.

Impressive wins over Tony Tucker and Frank Bruno.

Then came the shocking loss to Oliver McCall.

It was an early round KO and that can happen to anyone. But he still loses points for losing to McCall.

The main thing I criticize about his early career is the fact that he never faced the best man in the division, Riddick Bowe.

Maybe it was Bowe's fault, maybe his own for asking for too much money. The point is, they never fought and this tarnishes his legacy for sure.

His next big fight and the one that established his greatness was against Holyfield.

He beats Holyfield twice but the second fight was very close. And this is against a man who is obviously past his prime. But still, very impressive and high marks he gets for these victories.

After that he beats Grant, Botha and Tua.

Grant I won't even bother with.

Botha was a tough journey man and Lewis destroyed him. Very impressive win.

Tua was a very talented fighter but he was easily outboxed by even Oquendo until he made a mistake in the 9th. Some say it was an impressive win but it bothers me that he wouldn't even try to take out Tua. Tua was terrible that night and Lewis should have if not knocked him out, at least beat him down. Instead the two men hardly touched each other for 12 rounds. I was not impressed.

Then he loses to Rahman but wins the rematch impressively.

He then destroys Mike Tyson. Beating the crap out of him for 8 brutal rounds. Tyson was a shell of his former self by then but Lewis to his credit did what he was supposed to do.

Finally his fight with Vitaly. It was a tough battle and certainly it can be argued that Lewis was saved by the cuts.

In any event, I don't like the fact that there was no rematch.

He also never fought Ruiz and Byrd.

If you look at Lewis's resume, there are a lot of things missing and some things that don't make sense.

Also there is the Ibeabuchi factor. They never fought and this one certainly isn't Lewis's fault. But it can definitely be said that Ibeabuchi was a more impressive fighter. What I mean by that is that if you compare their work, you had to have favored Ibeabuchi to win if they fought.

Maybe you are thinking that is a ridiculous statement. But it can't be ridiculous because this matters a great deal.

A lot of people excuse Lewis for not fighting Ruiz and Byrd because they say he was more impressive than both so they can just assume he would have won.

Well, they were both very good champions with great records. If Lewis had wins against them in his record, his resume would look a lot better.

This is how Lewis's resume looks now.



Ruddock
Tucker
Bruno
Briggs
Holyfield
Tua
Tyson
Vitaly

Lost to McCall but wins the rematch
Lost to Rahman but wins the rematch


What if his resume looked like this?


Ruddock
Tucker
Bruno
Bowe
Briggs
Holyfield
Tua
Ibeabuchi
Ruiz
Tyson
Byrd
Vitali and rematch to clear the confusion from the first fight.


You can take Ibeabuchi out as it was not really possible. But some can say he was lucky like that.

Overall a great champion but he does not compare to the top greats who really took on all comers and at the very least, fought the best out there.

Imagine Ali never fighting Liston, Foreman or Frazier but having great excuses for not doing so.

When you do not fight the best, then you cannot be rated as the greatest champion of all time.

Yes, there are actually people who believe Lewis was the greatest of all time.

I even rate him behind Tyson and Holyfield.

Tyson had a short first career but he fought everyone and won impressively with that one exception in tokyo.

Holyfield had a long career and managed to defeat Foreman, Bowe, Tyson and came very close to beating a younger and fresher Lewis.

Overall very impressive for Lewis, but he does not even surpass heavyweight champions from his own generation in my opinion.

 

You must have accidentally forgotten everything Lewis did between 94-99..

 

I didn't think most of it was worth mentioning. I did mention his rematch win against McCall.

Why talk about Morrison, Akinwande and Golota?

I guess you can say he beat Mercer but again, it was a very close fight. I didn't mention it because although it was an impressive win, it was a controversial decision.

 

Only Don King wanted to see Ruiz or Byrd against Lewis. :doh:

Bowe got spanked by Lewis in the Olympics, so I'll put it on Bowe that they didn't fight. He dropped the belt in the trash can remember? Bowe had the nice trilogy with Holyfield, but other than that, he's remembered for folding to Andrew Golota of all people.

If Vitaly comes back and spanks Peter, that will add to Lewis' legacy.

 

Holyfield didn't come that close to beating Lewis, and he didn't even prevail in the rivalry that defined a huge segment of his career, against Bowe, and even the fight in which he did beat Bowe, the margin between the two was razor thin...and that's with Bowe in significnatly worse shape/condition than he was for the first fight (though it was only a year later).

Holyfield never had a sustained period of excellence at heavyweight that Lewis or Tyson had during the peaks of their careers.

 

Also

That is based on ONE SINGLE FIGHT which was the Byrd bout. It was the only time ever that Ike looked like a bad-ass, though even there it was an even fight after the first four (judges had it dead-even). Ike arguably lost to Tua whom Lewis beat very easily so he wasn't very impressive there, and Lewis' demolition of Golota was at LEAST as impressive as Ike's over Byrd

 

He dropped the belt in the trash can yes. But Bowe was the name, Lewis is the one who needed to go after this fight.

And if you criticize Bowe for throwing one belt in the trash can, do you also extend equal amounts of criticism for Lewis throwing 2 belts in the trash(not on tv like Bowe but the belts were gone the same) to avoid fighting Ruiz and Byrd?

Why weren't Ruiz and Byrd worthy contenders? Look at their resume's and compare them to Lewis's opponents.

 

Holyfield wasn't dominant but that happens when you challenge yourself and fight the very best in the world.

Even the greatest Ali was not dominating in his defining performances.

But Holyfield does have a win against Bowe, a knockout win over Tyson 8 years younger than the one that faced Lewis and a very close second fight with Lewis.

I know Holyfield's success was limited against the best but I am not arguing that he is greater than Ali, i'm just arguing that he is greater than Lewis.

 

ESK59, MY HERO, WELCOME BACK TO THE BOARDS

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You might want to consider taking Esk as seriously as you would Kid Dynamite. His hatred for Lewis is legendary around here.

And only a card-carrying Lewis hater would claim that Ike would have been favored over Lewis if they fought. The myth of Ike is the last hope that Lewis haters hang on to.

And of course Tyson was a "shell of himself", but Esk picked that very same Tyson to KO Lewis in the 1st round. And we also get treated to the old "Tyson ruined Ruddock" myth.

And of course we get "Lewis ducked Byrd and Ruiz".
Same old Esk... ::

 

In fairness esk, i have to say that was a pretty poor post.

1. Vitali was about to get clubbed to the canvas and was in fact the one who was "saved by the cuts".

2. Byrd and Ruiz? Please. You will say what is the difference between Boew throwing the belt in the bin and not facing lewis and lewis throwing the belt in the bin and not facing byrd and ruiz?
A) Lewis is better than Byrd and ruiz and would have KTFO them
B) Lewis was much more of a contender than Byrd/Ruiz.

And then you argue that holy is a greater heavy than lewis? ::

I could take an argument that Tyson is, because Lewis beat a shell but Holy?

come on man you're better than this

 

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the end.

 

1. That is just opinion based. The fact is no one knows what would have happend. You can argue that Lewis would've knocked him out and I can argue the opposite.

Situations like that are what rematches are for. Why wasn't there a rematch?

2. Would Lewis have KTFO Bowe also? You predicting that Lewis would have beat them does not mean he beat them. Those names are lacking from his resume and those guys, Ruiz and Byrd are more accomplished fighters than almost everyone he fought.

Lewis has only defeated a handful of opponents that have a better record than Ruiz and Byrd.


Finally, I can argue that Holy is greater than Lewis based on his resume. He actually defeated Riddick Bowe. He fared better against a fitter Mercer. He knocked out a much younger and better Tyson. And even when he was 38 and past his prime, he still gave Lewis a very tough fight.

 

In your case, you tell a woman you're bored of sucking Junior Witter's cock and you might, just might get lucky.

 

It doesn't matter if Ruddock was ruined or not. It was an early round KO and Ruddock's chin was very suspect.

McCall crushed Lewis early and I don't find it all that impressive. Yea it was a great punch landed and he did defeat Lewis but it didn't mean much in the end. Even if you toss the rematch aside. For a lot of reasons.


The myth of Ibeabuchi isn't a myth. He beat the crap out of Byrd. Something Lewis was unwilling to try. He also fought Tua in the trenches and won a hard fought decision. Again, something Lewis was unwilling to try.

Ibeabuchi would have been maybe even as far as the money is concerned but hardcore boxing fans would have favored him.

As far as Lewis ducking Byrd and Ruiz, I don't know what you want to call it. But he certainly did not fight them.

And they were both heavyweight champions with multiple defenses and great records who both continuously called him out.

I don't know what word you want to use for him not fighting them. I use the word duck, but if you are not comfortable with it, go ahead and find another one.

 

Bowe ducked Lewis by throwing his belt in the trash. Lenox tried to pursue that fight. I was rooting for Bowe at the time and I admit that BOWE could have made that fight.

Ruiz and Byrd were worthy contenders, and Lennox should have pole axed them, but he retired before fighting them. It's safe to assume that he didn't avoid them because he was afraid of facing them:dunno:

 

Thanks for the welcome. As far as the guide, I don't have it. That was quite a long time ago and I never saved it.

Check out this youtube clip though. It certainly reveals the secret to getting women.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54TiN3t5_I

 

I don't think Lewis was afraid of Ruiz and Byrd, but he didn't think the money was right for the risk.

And I don't think Bowe was afraid of Lewis but the money issues could not be worked out.

Why was Holyfield able to fight all of them? It just doesn't make sense to always blame everyone other than Lewis yet other fighters managed to get the fights.

 

Lennox Lewis.. aka LEMMON LOSER is the single worst HW champ of all time

 

:: ::

Lennox lewis in a match-up sense is the greatest HW champion of all time.

He would be favored over just about every single HW in history.

How could he be ranked below Holyfield?

 

Because Holyfield honored his mandatory challenger and Bowe didn't honor his.

And you can certainly try to make the parrallel between Lewis dropping belts not to fight Ruiz and Byrd and Bowe dropping a belt not to fight Lewis.

The problem with that scenario is that Lewis was the unquestioned #1 contender to the heavyweight title at the time.

Ruiz and Byrd weren't.

I don't criticize Lewis for not taking the Ruiz fight, because Grant was seen as far more deserving challenger than Ruiz.

Frankly, Ruiz was a ghost in the division for the most part after his 19 second performance against Tua. He fought and beat nobody of significance to "earn" that shot.

With the Byrd situation, I do criticize Lewis for not taking the fight, but even at that, Byrd was not regarded as all that deserving, though he did at least beat Tua. There wasn't any one heavyweight at the time seen as really deserving, as having a public mandate to fight Lewis - who was more interested in actually getting a rematch with Tyson - though he was certainly more deserving than Kirk Johnson. Klitschko was seen by many as the best contender or at least toughest challenge at the time, but that ended when he lost to Sanders.

 

Lennox Lewis TKO 6 Vitali Klitschko.

 

How was Ruddock's chin very suspect going into that fight? He had just gone the distance with your hero Tyson. Ruddock was favored to beat Lewis going into that fight. There is no basis in fact for your claim that Ruddock's chin was very suspect. If Ruddock's chin was suspect...how did he go the distance with Tyson?? Did he magically lose chin strength inbetween the two fights? Did the chin fairy come and take it away? You have said NOTHING that proves Ruddock's chin was suspect.

As for Ike...yes...the myth is bigger than the reality. The Byrd win was a good one, but he barely got by Tua...who was in over his head with Lewis. You're kidding yourself if you think Ike would have been the favorite or even money against Lewis. He would have been a live underdog at best.

 

::

good stuff!

 

esk? Fucking hell.

 

Lennox retiring rather than rematching Vitali isn't much of a big deal.

Plenty of fighters (greater than Lennox) have not rematched opponents in fights that were controversial or real robberies, not a tough fight where one guy almost has his eye fall off. And they often kept fighting on against other opponents, avoiding the rematch, instead of retiring to go smoke ganja on the beach and suck penis like Lummox.

 

How anyone can trash Lewis for not fighting Bowe is beyond me.

Lewis beat him to near death in the Ammy's and Bowe, almost literally shitting in his pants at the time, threw his fucking belt in the bin to avoid a fight with Lennox.

To recap: he called a press conference in which he was expected to issue a challenge to Lennox, and instead, he tossed his belt in a trash can to avoid a mandatory against Lennox.

But this is a detriment, not to Bowe, but to Lewis. :dunno:

NO-ONE has scorecard against Lewis. The two defeats he suffered were both savagely avenged. His loss to McCall was arguable on the grounds of a possible premature stoppage in any event- Lewis was on his feet and stable looking.

Byrd and Ruiz? Don't make me fucking laugh. They are only mentioned because they are the ONLY two live bodies out there Lewis DIDN'T fight. And if he did fight them, he would have beaten both handily, because both are average at best. Utterly average.

Sure, Lewis could have rematched Vitali, but his heart wasn't in it anymore. He always wanted to fight and beat Tyson- once he did so, emotionally he was done. People forget he was well into the twilight of his career at this point. If he'd ran at age 26, fine, criticize. But he was, what, 37? 38?

Lewis's legacy grows with each passing day, on the basis that the present HW scene is a complete disgrace. People slaughtered Lennox, and he was lambasted from plenty. But, Jesus wept, how the division misses him right now. He'd clean up in a heartbeat...

MTF

 

90% agreed.

the mccall loss was 100% correct tho

 

Esk, what if you have no teeth, because you're an Irish gypsy and they've all been knocked out in bare knuckle fights?

 

Lewis DID go after that fight, calling Bowe a chicken for dropping the belt rather than facing him. Lewis couldn't very well drag Bowe into the ring. Bowe said that he didn't want to face Lewis because he claimed he didn't want to give Lewis a payday, choosing to fight a rematch against the smaller Holyfield whom he had already beaten instead of defending all three belts. :dunno:

Ruiz was best known at that point for being KO'd in 19 seconds by Tua. In fact, prior to the Tua fight, Tua was riding an impressive win streak.

Still, on the subject of Bowe, you would think that Bowe, at that point in his career, would have wanted to erase his Olympic loss to Lewis rather than fight someone he had already beaten impressively for the title. :dunno: