Lets stop shitting on the young ones

dsimon writes:

In the old days when a guy came up and fought nobody even paid much attention to his opposition as a young fighter. there was an assumption that mistakes would be made, and that the fighter was there to learn the craft, make the mistakes and develop as a fighter.

Dempsey learned to fight in hobo camps. That means he essentially fought bum fights.

Kahn is 21 years old... 21. He has plenty of time to develop and to correct mistakes in his game if he wants too. So does Chavez BTW.

In a way I think the Olympics is anathemia to fighters because it puts them in competition mode too fast. There is a lot to learn in the fight game! one error compounds quickly! For example, If Kahn takes a longer count, gets his head back, or if he keeps his hand up and does not get nailed in the head 3 times... He might not have been Ko'ed.

If his corner had prepared him for what to do if he gets tagged things may have been different.

The point is that Warren has marketed Kahn already when he obviously has a lot to learn. But he is young and can learn.

And more to the point.... ALL you naysayers stop shitting on the younger generation... give these guys a chance, they are young and are entitled to do stupid things!

 

I think the underlying problem is the amount of hype they get for doing barely anything as well as fans being subjected to pay premium prices (PPV) to watch them develop. I have no problem with someone learning, even losing and rebounding and having a good career.

 

Spot on.

 

No doubt, and when I heard the falls superfights are:

Jones (39) vs. Calzaghe (36)
De La Hoya (35) vs. Pacquiao (29)
Pavlik (26) vs. Hopkins (43)
JMM (35) vs. Casamayor (37)
Vitali (37) vs. Peter (Age unknown)

You know boxing is in trouble. Two fighters in their prime, seven over 35, and one with an unknown age.

That being said Khan´s problem is his defense and chin. He has been clocked and badly hurt numerous times now, without showing any defensive improvements. His chin certainly won´t improve.

 

If they fight shittily lets shit on them.

What bothers me is we can only shit on them in a figurative sense by trashing them on a message board.

I wish we could literally spread out ass cheeks and shit on them.

 

He's a chinless bum dsimon, I've been telling you this for years.

Not just that but Werren and sky for everything they deserved for marketing Khan as a fucking PPV fighter, it was perfect, justice could not have been served better.

You wait until someone is an established world champ before marketing them as a PPV fighter, not a British/Euro level fighter like Khan fighting unknown scrubs.

They got what they deserved.

And quite simply, nobody is shitting on Khan, it just confirms what everyone with a bit of sense knew all along, he has no chin, and he was never going to be an elite fighter.

 

Exactly. :bears:

 

dsimon writes:

I think you are absolutely correct.

I think the promoters are the hypsters... the fighters srt of have to believe in themselves and sure if you throw the cash out in front of them they will go for it.

I also think that fighting is a hard craft to learn. Errors compound imo. Its more than just getting tapped hard on the jaw because your hands are not up. Suddenly you are getting tapped on the jaw by a guy who hits damn hard and is ready to follow up, etc etc.

 

Dsimon,

I'm reminded of something a wise person once told me..."Not everyone who shits on you is your enemy."

 

dsimon writes:

What I see is a young guy who is not being told what to do by an old whizzened guy who has taken a few to the chops and been dropped.

This kid id beong marketed to death, as Joe said, with no thought about developing him as a fighter.

The whole mentorship concept that you get with the Mayweather's (for example) is missing. Do you think Floyd Senior or Roger would care about the marketing of Floyd if he was getting hit by jabs from a cross eyed Columbian? I don't think so. :laughing:

This kid needs Tyson's cus Amato, Floyd's Roger and daddy. What next? they will probably put him with a superstar worthless trainer? Sample interview:
Buddy Mcgirt: 'Here Kahn drink some water."

Warren and Kahn's team: "Damn Buddy you are good, you are hired."

Or:

Freddie Roach: "Son get out there and your doing good son."

Warren and Co: "Damn Freddy you are also hired!"

Actually having said that maybe Emmanual Stewart could do something with this kid... at least teach him footwork for chrisake.

 

dsimon writes:

The marketing is ridiculous that I agree with.

Kahn could be a better fighter if somoene would work on his skills. The kid has absolutely no footwork. He does not know how to protect himself with his hands, etc. He obviously needs work. I wouldn't write him off just yet, though I smell a Prince Nasseme situation in the making. :laughing:

edit: I mean its crazy. As fast as this kid is, he gets hit square in the head with a ramrod jab that can be seen a mile a way. That is crazy.

 

Maybe he can go have some more trainer tryouts...and put it on reality tv or something.

 

.

did dempsey's "bum fights" cost money to watch? did mass media fabricate his abilities and cheat the public into caring about him at that stage. guy's like khan and chavez - if they object to the criticism they get - they should be thankful. it means their promoters got em somewhere they didn't pay their dues to be.

 

Thats too over simplistic, Mex.

Offensively, Khan is an excellent fighter. He throws punches in bunches very well, he has excellent handspeed and is reasonably heavy handed.

Also, despite what some might think, the kid has heart. Even yesterday, when he was on queer street, he got back up when he should really have stayed down and in the past when he has been hurt, he got back up and never hid; he still went looking for his opponent.

The flip side, of course, is that he has a shocking defence (which hasn't improved a skittle after 20 or so fights) and he has a glass jaw. Nobody, me included, have ever said otherwise. His chinniness has been evident from his Ammy days, and if last night is anything to go by, it's even worse than even werren imagined.

That's why, realistiically, I disagree with Dsimon- I just can't see anywhere for Khan to go from here. He could, theoretically, improve his punch resistance by actually making an effort to block and parry punches, but there isn't anything he can do to improve his chin; absolutely nothing at all. I'm struggling to think of any level of fighter where werren can pitch Khan without the very real risk of him being splattered again. :dunno:

Also, the sycophants who have paraded him as the greatest thing since sliced bread have made most real boxing fans hate Khan. My only regret from last night was that it didn't happen on an ITV card, just so that I could have seen Jim Rosenthal's fucking face prolapse into one of his many, many chins...

Agreed 100%

MTF

 

dsimon writes:


Guys like Chavez and Kahn are kids who are being manipulated by adults. Also, obviously if one is offered a gold ring instead of a brass one they will take the more valuable prize... anyone would.

But yes they are being pushed along too fast. They need to learn the game and are not at the level, at 21, that the promoters are trying to dictate they are at.

 

He sounds like Augie Sanchez in the chin department.

The best bet is to fight some guys near retirement, or coming out of it, who are coming up a few weight classes.

 

I can't see them being manipulated. It's not like they're children being stolen out of their houses in the night, forced to box for a living for mere pennies.

The path of a "promoted" fighter is about as easy as you can get in the sport...and it doesn't get much easier than JCC Jr.'s.

It just so happens that occasionally a match-maker will make a mistake and put them in with someone who is "live" that they mistook for a corpse.

 

That's what they've tried to do, and he's been bounced a few times and now finally splattered accross the ring.

MTF

 

Prescott didn't fall into that category, though.

A 25 year old Colombian puncher may not be the best way to go if you're trying to protect a young boxer.

There's been a few that have come out of that country, and they don't always have the easiest styles to deal with in the ring.

 

torres and e. mendoza come to mind.

 

The thing is, though, that absolutely no one in the Khan camp appears to have given Prescott a second thought. You could almost see Werren thinking about how this kids record gives him credibility but that he has beaten nothing of much note and was probably too slow to catch Khan anyway.

Wrong.

Every other fight Khan has had has been with old guys, near dead guys, small dudes who have gained a few lbs and feather fisters.

This was supposed to be a step up for Khan, but even so, he was still expected to decisively beat Prescott.

MTF

 

I think Prescott () comes from the same town as Maussa too.

Feebs - of course it's an oversimplification, just to save time, but it's half true though. Sure he has some attributes, but you take away his handspeed and he is a very basic fighter, with no real skill or depth to speak of, decent power - nothing special, no defense, and no chin.

Clearly, Khan is never going to be world class.

 

Oh don't worry. Warren is scouring grave yards as we speak.

 

He's probably looking for Augie Sanchez.

 

If Sanchez watched the fight he probably unplugged his phone afterward. ::

 

dsimon writes:

Or another cross eyed colombian.

Mitchell at 21 people are still kids.They are not being coerced physically but they are not pulling the strings and they do not havre the capacity to know if someone acts in theor best interests. Are you really going to argue that point?

REgrding MTF... Yes your points are spot on. Quite true that Khan has been hyped to the point where he is hated... ironickly there is probably a market for those who want to see him splattered on the canvas in as many ways as possible.

I don't think anyone will know what Kan is capable of until he is worked with properly. I tend to think that no fighter should get hit like he did last night chin or no chin. No fighter should not know how to use angles and hands to roll with punches... I mean the kid's response was to quickly punch back, all well and good but hey there is a lot more he could do against a cross eyed columbian

 

So it's not in his promoter's/manager's/trainer's best interest for him to win (and continue to win)?

 

dsimon writes:

Lets put it this way: Yeah in a perfect world self interest is such that everybody is happy but its not a perfect world is it?

When Cus brought Tyson up he made Tyson a student of the game. He also assiduastically prepared Mike for his reign the old fashioned way. When Cus left and Mike started to dictate the end was near.

Kan never had anyone that showed him the basics of the game that is obvious. That tells me that self interest was not working. The kid was mislead and not prepared for what he had to deal with. The mere fact that the opponent has some punching ability should have been a clue that maybe Kan should learn how to take a count at least if he did get plugged?

Its priorities. the priority was to bring the kid to market, not to make the kid prpeared to be the best fighter he could be. The proof is in the pudding. IN that half a round Kan made some big mistakes that were compounded by his lack of preparation. Thats a fact:

1) He should have taken the count and gotten his feet under him, he had at least 5 more seconds of the count to take before getting up.

2) He got drilled with a jab and did not put his hands up.

3) Kid has absolutely no footwork to speak of, moves straight in to hit and back... period.

 

Khan shopped around for his trainer like he was in a grocery store.

He supposedly worked out with Mayweather, Roach, McGirt, et al, before making the decision to go with Rubio.

So, if training and preparation was the problem perhaps someone else should've chosen for him.

And now that he's lost, he'll get plenty of protection in subsequent fights...what a horrible situation for a young fighter.