Manny Pacquiao vs Sugar Ray Robinson at 147lbs

I'm surprised I haven't seen this one yet.

I'm sure that anyone backing Robinson in this one can show me some video footage of a his ability at this weight to deal with a speedy southpaw swarmer who never tires and seems to have a reliable chin.

Until I see this evidence, however, I have to pick Pacquiao by decision.

 

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Ray Robinson can't lose....:atu:

 

Nah, in all seriousness Robinson would win.

Two reasons - Robinson throws back under fire - this is key to beating Pac. If you actually observe the Marquez and Morales fights rather than reading about them, it isn't boxing on the back foot and range which beat him, neither is it a consistent jab, like has been mythologized. It's because both guys were happy to fire back during the spurts where Pac was launching his combos. They're tough as teak little Mexican fuckers. That's where the openings are because that's the only time Pac is in range - at all other times he's circling outside of range and his fast feet get him back out there quickly. Even Margarito gave him serious problems during the rounds he exchanged shots with him; Pac hit hard enough, and the speed disparity was large enough to discourage Tony though and have him resort to stalking, waiting for Pac mistakes like Clottey and Cotto did for most passages, no longer willing to risk the incoming. Hatton gave him problems too for precisely the same reason, but Pac was able to bomb him out. Pac could get the better of the 2 way exchanges against all these guys with his shear speed and the sting of his shots.

He couldn't against Robinson who was not only one of the hardest hitters at welterweight ever but also had one of the greatest welterweight chins ever too. Robnson's skills and speed may be slightly mythologized, but those attributes weren't and neither was the abandon with which he launched attacks. The guy would fire back with every bit of viciousness Pac brought to him and with interest.

IMO, it's an early stoppage win for Robinson. KO 4.

 

Difficult to tell because there is not much material from welterweight Robinson. Judging from the fights I have seen from him, Pacquiao is clearly the faster guy and punches more straight. However, considering that SRR was much the bigger guy, I'd probably pick him

 

He was not the hardest fucking hitter. The guy had a relatively meagre KO percentage, especially considering all the bums he had in between HOF calibre fighters. This guy has two or so fucking clips of him knocking out iron chinned fighters with perfect punches and now the guy is Mike Tyson.

 

Not to mention, LaMotta took his best punches and didn't get knocked down, while he knocked Robinson down, AND Robinson was the bigger man.

Name one fighter that repeatedly took Hearns' best punches at WW.

 

This paragraph is too silly to even respond to, sorry dude. A welterweight Ray Robinson is a prodigious power puncher, nobody with a clue would even temper that statement let alone contradict it.

 

I disagree with one essential thing: the key to beat Pac is not to simply throw when he throws, but to have the speed (and reach) to do so. Marquez was quick enough and had great timing whereas Morales had speed and reach to catch Manny. Barrera did not, and neither has any of the bigger guys.

SRR was not nearly as quick as usually written, for example Leonard was much faster, but he probably has the speed and reach together to be able to catch Manny. Robinson's power is a bit overrated too, but it was enough to overcome Manny I think

 

You should probably just fucking stop. Please.

 

As you know...Robinson is the most overrated fighter in history. Now that's not to say he wasn't great...or even the greatest of all time...that's just to say that people act as though he was perfect in every facet of the fight game...as though his was Ali-Tyson-Jones-Whitaker in combination.

That's nonsense.

Lamotta knocked him down in their first fight. Old man Graziano knocked him down in their fight. Therefore I don't agree with this statement: "And not only that but conceivably the greatest welterweight chin of all time"

Secondly..

Counterpunching is what troubled Pacquiao in the marquez fights, not warring with him per se. Morales' JAB (regardless of what you say) is what controlled him in their fight. Pacquiao fights BEST when his opponents go to war with him...that's when he takes over. Marquez didn't simply go to war with him..Marquez discouraged Pacquiao's attacks by immediately firing back and then waiting again. I haven't known Robinson to fight that way in any of his fights...and Robinson's defense was no where near as good as his handspeed and fancy style would suggest.


Anyway...Jokes aside...it's possible that Robinson had the right combination of power, size and speed to beat Pacquiao...but let's not pretend this would be an easy fight.

 

Yet only a moron would succumb to cliches enough to over-deify a guy with a 55% KO ratio.

He had two-fisted power, we get it. But all of this hyperbole is largely retarded.

 

I agree totally. But he was as quick of hand as Marquez and Morales, IMO. He wasn't Leonard/Pac/Jones fast, but he was pretty quick. Quick enough to land in two way exchanges....just like Hatton & even Margarito were at times. If you let your hands go during exchanges when he's in range you'll land on Pac plenty.

 

Also, he lost to Gene Fullmer.

 

That said, the extremely overrated Robinson beats Manny by virtue of being a skilled boxer who's a legit WW.

 

Yeah I was confused on what I was reading, but you still didn't answer the question.

Which fighters took Hearns punches like LaMotta did Robinsons?

 

Hagler, obviously.

 

That fight was 2 rounds, both guys were hurt, and the only reason Hearns didn't take Hagler out was because he got knocked out first.

 

They'b be calling this one the Pinoy day massacre.

Manny plain and simple is NOT gonna handle the shots Lamotta took.

Manny does pretty well until he gets caughts, then he ends like Graziano with his mouth piece knocked into the cheap seats.

 

3 rounds. Please just stop. Or check this embarrassing shit you aren't clear on before you post.

And it was 3 rounds because Hagler eat up Hearns shots and then had so little respect for them that he just walked Hearns down and forced him to run. See that's just what happens when a truly great welterweight puncher meets a truly great middleweight chin.

 

You know what - complaint upheld. I edited my post and withdrew the claim if only because it's not the topic here and it's distracting from the thread.

 

First - where did those fights take place? (And how much did Ray weigh relative to his opponents?)

Secondly - how many times in 200 fights was Robinson KO'd?

 

Lamotta was never a huge puncher...so him weighing 13 pounds more is not that much of a factor. LIKE I SAID BEFORE...Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey and David Haye have given up FAR MORE WEIGHT THAN THAT, proportionate or otherwise against opponents without tasting canvas.

Also statistics are like a bikini:

What they reveal is suggestive but what they conceal is vital.

IRON chin is Hagler..not Robinson.

 

Was Robinson ever KO'd?

Your stance is ridiculous Sly. Part of what makes Robinson one of the greatest ever is his vulnerability. Name a way to win, he found it. Also, most of his losses came after he turned 40.

These guys fought three or four times per month...hurt hands, cuts etc. hell, he and LaMotta fought what...three times in the span of two months?

If Manny had trouble with a jab and right hand by Marquez he doesn't do a damn thing with Robinson who stood nearly as tall as Margarito and had a jab, and a right hand...and a left hook...and fast hands...etc.

 

Such nonsense.....Robinson by KO 3

 

You keep saying this. Most of the time it's untrue. When a guy has 200 fights, in large against the best, often outsized and was never KO'd, it's untrue.

It may be better to say that statistics are like an artists impression of a rapist. They'll usually be pretty damn accurate but there will also be exceptions. And if the artist has an agenda it might end up all fucked up.

 

IMO, Pacquiao would have to be at least a big 154lber, pushing 160, to be favoured here (if he largely retained his current talents & skill-set). One of two major issues for Robinson were bigger men, who could bully him at close-range & stifle his ability to keep mid-distance. Pacquiao is a long way from fitting that bill.

 

In fairness Ray never fought anybody like Pac. I don't think there's ever been a fighter with welterweight Pac's style. The combination of the way he uses range, speed and volume is genuinely unique, as far as I can think.

But no doubt to me Robinson wins this well within the distance.

 

Robinson KO 4.

Too big, too strong, too fast, too powerful.

Pacquiao would have to ATTACK Sugar Ray inside and in doing that, he will get hit with uppercuts and hooks inside and he's not going to stand up to those for very long.

This one's exciting and action packed.

But Robinson would end it in brutal fashion.

 

Marvin Hagler and Iran Barkley

 

Robinson wins. end of story

TLC is queer, Sly is a revisionist jackass