the adjective great is often tossed around loosely. Just wondering who you gentlemen would classify as truly great boxers you've seen in your lifetime. lets start with kermit cintron. feel free to add
"True great," is subjective. Is a true great someone who places very highly amongst the best of all-time within a particular division (or perhaps more than one division), or someone who has simply had a brilliant career in a more overall scope? Either way, I think you have at least five legitimate, all-time greats --- beyond the point of dispute --- fighting right now. That's just off the top of my head, thinking about prominent figures. You have a few who're arguably in this category to boot. Of course, "modern," can also extend to retired fighters of a still-fresh vintage, I am only thinking of currently-fighting men.
when i think of the truly great boxers in the game, juan diaz just doesnt spring to mind. i think of the impeccable technique, timing, fluidity and skill of kermit cintron. if you need some inspiration check out this masterpiece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKPshAiOxaM&playnext=1&list=PLCC55DA23A714D311
I'll try to narrow my list down to great fighters with significant wins in the last 10 years. Manny Pacquiao Floyd Mayweather Roy Jones Lennox Lewis Juan Manuel Marquez Erik Morales Marco Antonio Barerra Oscar De La Hoya Bernard Hopkins Did I miss anyone? Trinidad, maybe?
Manny Pacquiao Floyd Mayweather Roy Jones Lennox Lewis Bernard Hopkins Erik Morales MA Barrera Borderline: Juan Manuel Marquez Oscar De La Hoya Joe Calzaghe Felix Trinidad
Really, Marquez borderline? Interesting. I'd argue he's greater that MAB and Morales now. Juan Manuel Marquez should never be mentioned in the same category as Joe Calzaghe. :nono:
I go back and forth on Marquez, he is 0-1-1 against an all-timer for sure (leaving aside arguments about whether he should have a W), but while he has a lot of wins over decent to good guys, I can't help thinking of him making hard work of a pretty old Barrera, an even older Casamayor....I would love to include him but I'd have him on the cusp
Sounds good. Could you leave Froch off that list if he beats Glen Johnson and Andre Ward? Seriously his super-middleweight resume would read Jermain Taylor (former undisputed middleweight champion) Glen Johnson (former undisputed light-heavyweight champion) Jean Pascal (undisputed light-heavyweight world champion) Andre Ward (undefeated for 13-14 years world champion and Olympic goldmedalist) Arthur Abraham (undefeated middleweight world champion) Andre Dirrell (undefeated amateur standout and inevitably a world champion) ....with his only loss a close decision away from home to a former unified champion in Kessler. Call me crazy, but if Froch wins the S6 he´s an all-time great. :kidcool:
Froch was never going to get that opportunity for longetivity-he was too old to start with, thats what makes his sprint over the last 2 yrs all the more impressive, aside from the Calzaghe fight we will probably not have any "what if"s when it comes to his career, which is pretty cool really
Longevity's overrated, anyway. You prove what you prove, who cares how long or how short you manage to do it in.
Who are the five? Pacquiao, Mayweather, Marquez, Hopkins and Jones? Morales and Holyfield are still active too. ::
There is a very strong argument now to have Froch ahead of Calzaghe historically already based simply on his last five fights. That pesky loss to Kessler, close or no, and Calzaghe's win over Hopkins (and this win gets precisely NO credit around here despite Hopkins being around over two years later and still competing with the best) provide a good counter-argument, though. As for Ward, let me know when he fights outside of Oakland and I'll get back to you. MTF
Froch lost to Kessler. Under the Unified Rules Of Internet Snobbery For Determining Who Was the Better Man, Calzaghe walks away with this one, hands down. Oh and the next time Froch absolutely batters and whitewashes an undefeated American champion into obscurity will be the first time. However- the point is raised, ipsa loquitur and all that- Calzaghe was Greater but was he Better? And vice versa.....
I was thinking along the lines of Pacquiao, Mayweather, Holyfield, Marquez & Hopkins. Borderline cases to boot, including the likes of Jones, & Mosley. As I said, though, it was just an off-hand statement. I had definitely not counted on Morales, for instance.
:: No come on here, friend. Only place I would guarantee him to rank among the very best is in the history of the SMW division (#1 with a bullet, IMO, looking at head-to-head). I suppose some would make a case for him as a top-5 LHW, but I would not. Top-15, I don't mind too much.
if this topic is lemons then Id consider your contribution to be vegemite. Jones Jr is borderline??? jones jr is not as great a boxer as cintron, but he is great nonetheless.
There have been what, 12 or so decades since the Marquis of Queensbury rules have been going? The best fighter in one of those decades is definitely great. :nono:
from 1990 until now: Whitaker Jones Mayweather Chavez J Marquez Lewis Pac-Man Hopkins Holyfield NEAR greats (still, obviously HOFers but just a notch below those gentlemen) Morales Mosley Barrera Hoya Mark Johnson** Ricardo Lopez** Pongsaklek Wonjongkam** Trinidad Quartey Wright Toney Tszyu Castillo Calzaghe (even though I think this is generous, frankly, thats how much his comp sucked and how underwhelming he often was against them) **some would argue that these guys should be in the first grouping, but I have a tough time rating them historically because of the relative shallowness of their divisions all-time I might be missing one or two guys, this is off the top of my head, after all
