Where do you rank him amongst the guys in his era RJJ, De La Hoya, Trinidad, Hopkins, Barrera, Morales and so on if he beats Cotto on saturday?
Who would rank above him? to me only RJJ at this point is above. Mayweather would eventually jump him though.
Shane is clearly superior to Oscar, I mean, you know?..:dunno: two arse whippings should substantially clear that up?, aswell as having two victories over Oscar's best win of Fernando Vargas instead of just the one,..and THUS subsequently :crafty: it means Sir Mosely pisses on Fraud's latest petty achievement from atop of a ssssskkkkkkyyyysssssscraperrrrrr. Morales and Barrera are insignificant midgets who dont equate to Shane's quality pound for pound, and Tito's losses were just so one sided and humiliating that despite admiration for his willingness to take on the best with suspect wraps, it ought to have dropped him a notch below Mosely if nothing else. Roy is 1st,..Shane is 2nd, and from the perspective of a boxing fan, he really should be monumentally glorified for maintaining a route of integrity and honour throughout his career inside the ring with his tough wild-cat style, and outside the ring with his fearless inclinations to take on the best,..(He gave Winky Wright access to the mainstream when he could've what's the word?...."Margarito'd" him). Mosely is a sure reminiscial teardrop, in this sickening post-Jones / Pro-Fraud era .
I'd have Jones below him....MAB, Morales, Dela would be ahead IMO.. PBF is of a different generation.
Trinidad should indeed be at the bottom of the pile, but you should really trade Morales with Barrera and put De La Hoya between them. When has De La Hoya convincingly beaten a prime great fighter like Morales did Pacman in their first fight? I do respect De La Hoya, and he has pretty much taken on all comers, but I think he is a notch below Morales. Mosley is proper great if he beats Cotto at age 36, and should be ahead of Oscar, Barrera and Morales.
Good post - although that raises some good questions. Who's greater, DLH or Morales? DLH or Barrera? I think it's real close.
Mayweather started out in 1996. Mosley started out in 92 along with Oscar. Morales started alittle after that. I'd say there all in the same generation.
I'm not the biggest Oscar fan but I'd consider Genaro Hernandez top opposition. I mean, he did win titles from 130-154. And Morales and Barrera both have their share of "could go either way decisions." I'd probably rank the two above him but I think it's pretty damn close.
If they're in the same generation, then Roy and Hopkins would have to be considered part of a prior generation. I mean you can argue there's only 4 years between Roy and Oscar, and only 4 between Oscar and Floyd. But there's also only 4 years between Floyd and, say Kelly Pavlik and Jermain Taylor. You eventually have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise everyone's part of the same generation.
Floyd said that he wilfight Shane if he wins. If Shane can beat Cotto then Shane hes gotta be near the top.
my bad. I really don't have an answer that I can stand behind 100%. Right now, I have him at the bottom of that list, maybe slightly ahead of Oscar (will explain in a minute). I know that no matter what happens this weekend, Roy and Bernard will remain ahead of him. He'd have to rank ahead of Oscar. You can't cite Oscar's resume and ignore the losses, because Shane then deserves the same leniency - not to mention he has scoreboard on Oscar. My problem with Shane is that very few of his wins came against fighters who would go on to accomplish anything. In fact, Oscar is the only one. And honestly, all he accomplished post-Shane I was beating an already used-up Vargas. Cotto would be only his second, by my count (assuming the hypothetical loss doesn't ruin Cotto). I'd probably rank him ahead of Trinidad, who had a spectular run at the start of his welterweight reing, and then from 1999 to mid 2001. But feuding with Don King while fighting next to nobody from '95-'98 hurts his historical standing. Not sure if beating Cotto, coupled with the rest of his career, is enough to push him past Barrera and Morales, who have wins over each other and at least one other major fighter that would match Shane's achievement this weekend - Barrera beating Hamed, Morales beating Pacquiao. IF Shane wins this weekend, then I guess: Roy Bernard MAB/Morales Mosley Trinidad/DLH
After some more consideration, and remembering some of Morales and Barrera's great wins, including each other, and the fact that Mosley lost to Forrest and Wright twice, I would rank it almost exactly like you just did. The difference being IF Mosley beat Cotto convincingly, that would be a brilliant win, given Mosley being 36, and Cotto being for real and undefeated. So I might tie him with Morales and MAB.
yeah, that's exactly where I got stuck as well, which is why I said I really don't stand behind it 100%
Shane has the edge over Oscar head-to-head (although the rematch was debatable and Shane was Balco'd up), but De La Hoya has the superior resume overall. Vargas was better in 2002 when DLH beat him than in 2006 when Shane beat him twice. Beating Vargas twice in 2006 then doesn't mean it's a better achievement. The first Mosley-Vargas fight was a good competitive bout that people wanted to see again because endings like that feel less than conclusive. Oscar knocked Nando out and Nando was suspended for awhile and tried to rebuild. Shane will have to beat Cotto in order to go ahead of DLH all-time.
