Most over-rate "Masterful" performances...

RJJ - Griffen II (nice upper-cut but that's about it)

PBF - Corrales (see Mosley's opinion on this one)

SRL - Duran II (Duran was insulted by SRL's pussy-footing)

What are some others that weren't nearly as impressive as many make them out to be?

PBF - Gatti

Gatti - Dorin (Dorin was a retired light-weight who had never even fought at 140 before)

 

So in other words this is the revisionist history threads for fighters that you hate? :dunno: That's what it looks like to me.

 

We know how much you hate Floyd, but I thought you hate Slappy more, so I expected to see you list Calzaghe-Lacy.

I really rarely ever hear Leonard's performance in New Orleans described as so masterful,. I guess since people exaggerate how much he was ahead I could see what you're saying....the fight was still competitive.

 

those fights were one-sided. how were they not impressive considering the odds?

mayweather should've been like a 100-1 favorite over gatti. how close were the odds?

 

no. this is my attempt to bring people down to earth. let's look at these "masterful" performances with the benefit of hind-sight. shall we? why shouldn't we? it's just an opinion.

 

Slappy/Lacy is over-rated. Slappy held like a bitch. That's literally how he managed to win the fight. That and the fact that Lacy was loading up like a fucking idiot, telegraphing his punches terribly, and throwing one at a time. To me a masterful performance is one in which a guy's opponent does everything right and still loses miserably. A perfect example of this would be Sanchez/Gomez, or Pryor/Arguello. Or SRL/Hearns I. Or Trinidad/Vargas. To me, that's a masterful performance. It's not the degree to which a fighter's able to exploit his opponents incompetence - it's the degree to which he's able to cope with his opponent's expertise.

 

Any Whitaker fight from welterweight on, the Chavez fight in particular. I love when people claim that was a 10-2 or even 9-3 type fight in attempts to justify the stance that Pea was robbed. He was, but by nowhere near that margin.

But to go in a different direction, I'll name some of my favorite fighters:

Tito-Whitaker: Yes, Tito dominated, but hardly the signature win of his career. Even with his being weight drained, there was still little excuse for Tito to NOT knock Pea's block off considering where they were at that stage of their repsective careers

Gatti- Patterson II: People point to this fight as proof that deep down, Gatti is or had the potential to be a bonafide boxer-puncher. Bullshit. All he proved in this fight was that he could go a full fight without bleeding to death.

 

yeah but odds are based on subjective arguments, arguments that have a basis in past fights. if a promoter is careful about who his fighter has faced leading up to a fight, it will undoubtedly create distorted odds. it's how people make money.

Gatti's wins over Leija, Dorin and that Italian dude were meaningless. But somehow he emerged from them appearing as a threat.

 

Hatton-Tszyu: Career best win for Ricky? Absolutely. Masterful, dominant performance? Only if you're a fan of dry humping and brawling. And also if you consider a close fight (a 7-4 fight at the time of the stoppage) a "masterful performance."

 

i agree. any performance involving as much slop as this one can hardly be classified as masterful. courageous? no doubt. tenacious? of course. but masterful in no way.

 

But what if a fighter is able to neutralize his opponent's expertise? For instance, Hopkins-Trinidad. Trinidad was an accurate, vicious puncher with both hands and good punch selection. Hopkins was able to strategically incorporate a game plan and make Trinidad look average (and incompetent at times) and when he wasn't accurate.

Every fighter has weaknesses. If his opponent is able to fight in a way that make these weaknesses have a huge part in the outcome, then that can be a masterful performance IMO.

 

.....

Well I think it's ridiculous....

Jones KO'ed a guy in 1 round who gave him a difficult fight the first time.

Mayweather absolutely owned a guy and stopped him who nobody thought he could. Corrales was extremely competant at 130 and 135 and Floyd took his 0.

SRL-Duran, blah I don't here that many people talk about what a masterfull performance it was to be honest. Mostly people just talk about the quit job.

None of the above performances are even close to overrated.

 

I had it 8-4 Whitaker.

The problem in that fight was the fact that Chavez's rounds were closer than Whitaker's rounds. Whitaker won his rounds by wider margins, but in terms of round-by-round scoring....I've seen a lot worse.

 

Not true. Calzaghe beat the shit out of Lacy, he did not need to hold nor did he hold excessively. I'd have no issues if you just said Lacy sucks, but Calzaghe sure as hell did not Ruiz his wat to victory in that fight.

 

You are INSANE!!!

 

agREED?

double this is some grade A hatred

 

PBF - gatti was a masterful performance - how coudl you say otherwise?

I want Floyd to get knocked out cold as much as the next guy, but he made gatti look like a complete bum, it was an awesome performance. It's not like gatti suddenly became shot overnight.

That was the closest I've seen a world ranked fighter looking like a human punching bag.

And calzaghe beat the shit out of lacy, he didn't hold too much at all.

Lacy telegraphed, loaded up, and threw 1 shot at a time? Well fucking duh, that's Lacy. He is not much good and he telegraphs his punches. He got battered, outclassed, discouraged, then battered some more. It was a very good performance.

 

There's lots of guys who could easily beat Gatti. Baldomir for one. Gatti was protected as hell at 140. But if he'd fought any real guys there, he never would've been there for the PBF fight in the first place.

As far as Slappy/Lacy, if you don't think Joe held a lot, try watching the fight again. He held at least 2 minutes of every round. He mixed some foot-work and punches, obviously, but his only answer for Lacy's pressure was to hold him. Watch the fight again. You probably won't make it through the whole thing it was so damn tedious but 5-6 rounds is all you'll need to see what I mean.

 

Sure alot of guys can easily beat Gatti.....but how many times did Gati landed anything on Mayweather?...and this wasn't Mayweather running/boxing ala Bumdomir...he was right infront of GAtti all fight..

 

the only time he hurt him was on the break - cheating fuck.
Zab Judah, for example, would tear Gatti up worse than PBF did, IMO.

 

Defend yourself at all times. Oh and BTW, Gatti was hurt badly besides the KD.

 

most overrated performances

De La Hoya TKO4/8 Chavez - chavez was old as fuck

De La Hoya KO2 Rueles - rueles sucked

De La Hoya KO6 Mayorga - Mayorga was shot.

Castillo KO4 Corrales - castillo cheated

Castillo W12 Lazcano - Lazcano was overrated

Castillo W12 Casamayor - Castillo barely won against a guy much smaller than him

 

I was impressed with one of Whitaker's performances when he was at welter...actually when he ventured up to jr mid and beat jc vazquez clearly. As I remember, Whitaker was a 6-1 favorite, but I picked vazquez straight up. Otherwise, I agree...I can't think of another welter performance that was overly impressive...I suppose the mcgirt fights, but I don't rate them since I don't think mcgirt was as good as hbo tried to convince the viewers...

 

plus, the first mcgirt fight was pretty close. hardly dominant.

 

you're not alone. many have all but dismissed these wins and ODH more often than not gets no credit for them. sp i don't think it's accurate to say they're over-rated. and let's face it, Ruelas wasn't as good as people thought.

as for Mayorga, ODH hardly got credit for that win to begin with, so it hardly qualifies as over-rated either.

i disagree with the first chavez fight. chavez barely landed a punch on ODH and was befuddled by ODH's speed. and past his prime or not, he was far more formidable than the Gatti that PBF slaughtered. and PBF had the audacity to criticize ODH's comp? :laughing:

and the second chavez fight? over-rated? ODH gets nothing but flak for that performance - hardly over-rated.

 

You are INSANE! And no Baldomir didn't EASILY beat gatti.

Floyd EASILY beat Gatti...there's a difference. Floyd beat Gatti the way I'd beat a 10 year old child. It didn't even look like Gatti was a two time world champion in there....

 

Gatti looked like a two time champ against Baldomir? and yes. Baldomir did easily beat Gatti.

 

I don't know about this whole thread, but if Meldrick Taylor can beat Chavez for 11 rounds 2 minutes and 58 seconds, and be LAUDED for what he managed to do for so long, and Whittaker then comes along and beats Chavez hands down without a mark on him...surely...that was a masterful performance. If Taylors supreme athleticism and olympic skills got him hospitalised, what did Whittaker have to do to dominate and come out of it unscathed??

Can't a brawler brawl magnificently? And Jake, your bias aside, Hatton landed an awful lot of leather on Tszyu....he bullied the bully and somehow comes out of it with no credit?:dunno: :dunno:

 

Dumbest post ever.

Joe held???

Held a lead on the cards. That was about all the holding he did that night.

 

Seriously though, Oscar's "masterful performance" against Trinidad before he got tired and ran is exaggerated. Oscar was winning the fight, but it wasn't the complete domination that people like to say it is. There were close rounds (1, 4, 8, for instance) in there and Oscar missed a lot of his shots in his quick flurries which Jim Lampley went nuts over.