Apart from Montell Griffin (Jones and 2 x Toney), is there another non great fighter with a pair (or more) of wins (vs different ATG fighters) as outstanding??
Wow... Byrd vs Vitali and Holyfield? He beat two guys that beat a lot of guys he wouldn't... Only real issue is Vitali as an ATG (he's not an ATG fighter but if there's 10 guys an absolute lock to beat him, I'm all ears) and Holyfield "Prime"... Holyfield lost to Byrd all of 1 year after the Lewis rematch. Max Schmelling This is a bit of a cheat. Schmelling wasn't a great even though he beat Louis.. Vitali, for example woukd have moidered him. But he beat Louis and Louis never lost again for damn near 30 fights and he beat Mickey Walker. Not Schmelings fault that Mickey was all the way up at "heavyweight" but back then that didn't mean as much. And Walker was on a long run that featured 1 loss and 1 draw and had a lot more fights there after. Not a massive difference in size.
Walker was also one of the precious few who - like Toney, or Dempsey - had a style better suited for beating bigger fighters. He was actually quite a good heavyweight.
He looks strong.. It doesn't surprise me he had problems making weight and dealing with difficult long southpaws like Flowers. Bigger slower guys appear to have suited him just fine.
Very difficult question. Most fighters capable of beating two prime greats end up great themselves. Montell was my first answer, but that's taken. I wouldn't quite call Joey Maxim a great fighter - he's close, though - and he managed to beat Patterson, Bivins and obviously, Robinson. Another instance of a fighter with two great wins, or in this case, three; is Ralph Jones. He beat Gavilan, Giardello and Robinson. Randy Sandy beat both Emile Griffith and Dick Tiger. Another answer - although only partially, as neither were prime - is Pat Lawlor. He stopped both Duran and Benitez.
Guts Ishimatsu beat not a peak, but still very good Ken Buchanan, and Gato Gonzalez. Buchanan is an unquestionable lightweight great. Gonzalez is considered by many a borderline lightweight great. So Guts might belong here.
The problem as alluded to above is that no sooner have you identified a guy who beat 2 greats, he starts sliding into greatness territory himself.
Considering he won a titke at cruiser and also at hw* (well not really since he tested positve), I don't see how he can't be considered out of his prime at 175.
I'm a huge Toney fan, but there are times too many excuses are made for him. Griffin was just a difficult style matchup for him. James was very much in his prime. If you had put a more open target in front of Toney, he would have shined. The Griffin fights show that a guy like Qawi would have beaten the living Hell outta Toney.
Stanley Hayward beat 30-year old Emile Griffith and 26-year old Curtis Cokes He also has a win over Bennie Briscoe
I would have to do more research but I’m guessing it happened more often in the 1930s-1950s since people fought so frequently, and were bound to have some off nights and bad style matchups. Maybe among the Black Murderers Row? Jose Basora has wins over Jake Lamotta, Holman Williams, Fritzie Zivic, and a draw with the GOAT Not sure if they were prime though
Yes. The fact he couldn't get his ass into shape is nobody else's fault.. Now I need to find if Drake Thadzi beat anybody else....
How about Winky Wright? Beat Mosley and Tito who both were highly regarded at the fight time, though not at their absolute peak (the talk about Tito being washed up began after the bout)
Hurricane Carter.......?? Beat Griffith- ZERO arguments there. Beat Jimmy Ellis, too......now....Ellis was a HW Champ too. Not a great. But how about MW Carter beating a man who went on to become a HW Champ in a strong strong era?
