At his absolute best (at 140, that is, not his optimal prime), I can see Chavez winning via come-from-behind late stoppage. Not quite as late as the Taylor fight, but I can see Chavez wearing down Tszyu throughout. Tszyu wasn't the most resillient fighter in the world - and quite frankly, Chavez was. I can see Julio's body attack affecting Tszyu a lot more than Tszyu's power affecting Chavez' superhuman chin/cranium. Chavez by late TKO.
I don't see how anyone can even question the result here. The Chavez who beat Taylor would knock Tszyu out without question. I mean Tszyu was a pretty good fighter. But stylistically, Chavez is exactly the kind of fighter he never would've beaten. Chavez would get close to Tszyu and pound on him round after round, withstanding three or four good shots a round from Tszyu, but doing a lot more damage himself. And I think by round 9 or 10 Tszyu would fold, having landed his best stuff and failed to keep Chavez off him. Does anyone doubt that Chavez would've backed Tszyu up? And given this, can you imagine Tszyu winning? I simply can't. And the idea that Tszyu would be ahead the way Taylor was? WTF? What does Tszyu do that's even remotely similar to Taylor? Sure, he could box. But he never threw combos the way Taylor did, he couldn't move like Taylor, and he sure's hell wasn't as brave. Chavez would destroy Tszyu.
I don't believe the word 'prime' and the number '140' belong in he same sentence, when referring to JCC. Still, he was good enough at the weight to beat the bigger, stronger, quicker, harder hitting Tszyu over the distance. Chavez wouldn't stop Tszyu, IMO. But I do think he dominantes the final half of the fight and comes from behind to take a 115-112 kind of decision, with the beating getting nasty late on.
I won't argue with the overall result; good post. But there's a few things I disagree with: 1. "3 or 4 good shots a round?" :: It's clear you're visualizing the inactive, past-prime, measured Tszyu. I would certainly toss in a prime Tszyu vs. Chavez and I would expect him to have many good rounds and land quite a bit...Tszyu's hook off the jab and right hand are made to land on Chavez and often; and I'd expect Tszyu to be much more active. 2. Tszyu has folded.....once. When he was 37, VERY inactive, on foreign soil, at 2am....:: the context is endless. He didn't "fold" vs. Phillips - he got STOPPED. People keep wanting to lump this together....like saying Wlad "quit" vs. Purrity. 3. Tszyu wasn't as "brave" as Taylor? Where does this come from? Does ANYONE here visualize Tszyu backpedaling and potshotting and "surviving" vs. Chavez? No. Tszyu can box pretty damn well.... I do see Chavez winning via competitive decision....not so sure about a stoppage. Peace.
Tszyu definitely doesnt have the heart of Taylor. Meldrick woulda NEVER quit, regardless of his age. Tszyu isnt nearly as tough mentally as you make him out to be. I truly believe he's a front runner. Not a front runner on the level of a Fruitass, or Golota, but still a front runner. I dont think Chavez would stop him, but I DO think its a very real possiblilty that Tszyu quits on his stool vs Chavez, similar to the way Uncle Roger, and Sammy Fuetes quit under Julio's amazing pressure. Once Kostya realized he cant hurt Chavez, and Julio would be in his chest punishing his body, Tszyu would SLOWLY but surely begin to yes, FOLD!
1. I'm not suggesting that Tszyu would throw no more than 3-4 punches a round. I'm suggesting that he'd land 3-4 big shots in every round. That's a lot when you're talking about big shots! And it was usually enough for Tszyu to win comfortably. For example, he beat the hell out of Ahmed Santos, and won decisively. But in each round there were usually 3-4 ridiculous punches he'd land that caught everyone's attention and that certainly accounted for Ahmed's eventual crumbling. My point is, this wouldn't get the job done against Chavez. 2. No. I don't visualize Tszyu back-pedaling and surviving. That's why I think he gets stopped. He doesn't have the same tools as Taylor. He's not going to be able to weave a web around Chavez the way Taylor did. If he tried to box him, he'd lose. And if he tried to fight him, he'd be stopped. My guess is he'll try to do what he does best: fight him. And consequently he would be stopped. 3. Tszyu would be very susceptible to Chavez's body assault. 4. Tszyu's used his left hand to good affect as far as controlling his opponent and walking them into his right hand, but it certainly wouldn't be a factor in discouraging or neutralizing Chavez. 5. For all his success Tszyu's heart was rarely tested. Probably his most impressive win as far as demonstrating will and heart was the Hurtado fight but he was able to get him out of there early so despite being knocked down, it's not like he went through 12 rounds of fire to win. 6. I'm comfortable, given what I've seen of Tszyu, in making the judgement that he has somewhat of a bully mentality in that if you stand up to him, and take what he dishes out and keep coming, that he will be discouraged. Looking back on his career, he was a pretty cocky and arrogant guy in the ring, even if he played nice during the interviews. All of this suggests to me that he'd be in way over his head against the likes of Chavez. 7. Don't under-estimate Tszyu's inability to be effective moving backwards. Also, don't overlook his less than spectacular infighting abilities.
Chavez got cut in 30 seconds against Oscar. He might make in a full minute against Tszyu. Tszyu via cuts in five rounds or less
That highlighted point is excellent! Hurtado wasnt able to really test Tszyu's heart because of his glass chin. Everyone else who Tszyu ever fought wasnt able to really test him because they were overwhelmed by his power. The only two opponents who were ever able to take Tszyu's power, and fire back hard, beat him. And Tszyu quit vs one of them.
Chavez didnt cut til later in his career. In his prime he NEVER cut! How the hell is Tszyu gonna stop a PRIME Chavez in 5 rounds, when it took him 6 to stop a 150 year old Chavez?:: You Tszyu groupies are pathetic.
Th slightly past prime Chavez whm Tszyu embarassed never tried to win, instead he went for survival after tasting Tszyu's power. Prime Chavez would have at least tried to win, meaning he had taken the fight on him, meaning he would have gotten his face battered (or he had quit) even quicker.
So now Chavez was only SLIGHTLY past his prime when he fought Tszyu?:: He had gotten the shit kicked outta him by WILLIE WISE prior to Tszyu beating him, I'd say he was a little bit more than SLIGHTLY past his prime you simp! He was SLIGHTLY past his prime when Randall beat him, he was near washed up when Oscar beat him, he was BEYOND shot by time he fought Tszyu.
When are you guys going to realize that UGTBK always backs fighters that were born in the former Soviet Union. :dunno: That's his MO.
Considering that the rest of the forum is against them, I consider that as a minor sin. Plus, Chavez is overrated, though not as overrated as Roberto "Hugs of Ruiz" Duran
1. Fair point. You'd expect, however, that Tszyu would be more active vs. Chavez. A prime Tszyu DOES up his activity rate when needed (see fights vs. Phillips, MAGO, Urkal). However, it's true that 3-4 really sharp, big, accurate punches won't be enough to deter El Leon de Culiacan! Chavez' chin is ridiculous. That said - Chavez was not a swarmer or a high-volume puncher. This needs to be taken into account. Though Chavez applied enormous pressure; he was by no means an Armstrong: he also relied on hard, well-placed, accurate punches to break you down over the long haul. He was a selective, accurate puncher. This is what I find so exciting about this match-up....in their approach, Tszyu and Chavez are very similar. It's not like Chavez is going to overwhelm Kostya with activity....especially not at 140. 2. I still think people underrate Tszyu's boxing skill; especially post-Phillips - I also think people overestimate how much he gets hit. Anyway, the point was he certainly wouldn't fight to "survive" and he certainly wouldn't backpedal. I just think the "bravery" point was kind of odd. Tszyu absolutely did a paint job on Tackie - a fight many were picking him to lose or get stopped in. Obviously, Chavez is leagues better than Tackie...but the point is, Tszyu was more flexible and a much better tactician than given credit for. 3. Sure enough...and that's the key to this match-up. However, Chavez is gonna pay for those with big right hands to his noggin. 4. No, but it sets up his big right hand very effectively...that hook off the jab is a bother. 5. Agreed...another key to this match-up. 6. I don't think he's in over his head...he's in against a guy who fights alot like him. I just think he eventually isn't as resistant as Chavez and that's the deciding factor. Don't underrate just how quick Kostya could be - especially in bursts - at 140, and how fast his right hand was. And he can tie up, be rough and bully too.....and he is the natural 140 lber; Chavez is most definitely not. Phillips was. 7. Don't see the point. When Tszyu elects to box, he does so laterally. He wouldn't backpedal here; he'd set up his shots. Infighting? He's not as good as Chavez; sure. But he can bust you up. Chavez by decision or very late stoppage in a competitive fight. Great discussion. Peace.
