Recognized champs ACROSS 5 divisions.

How many fighters in history have GENUINELY achieved this feat? (If you skip the class you still 'cross it', BTW). Firstly the men who didn't quite make it.

--Men who don't quite Qualify--:doh:

Ray Leonard
Patently, calling Ray a Light Heavyweight champion when he never even fought at the weight class is absurd. Frankly, I find his claim to being a legit 168 champion SPURIOUS when you consider he won the title in his first fight in the division against a fighter who wasn't even ranked in the division! (Doesn't detract from the Lalonde win itself btw, which was still great) Then defended it in fights that he stipulated would take place at a weight way below 168. IMO, Leonard is a champ across Three weights.

Roy Jones Jr.
Certainly a legitimate Titleist across 5 weights, nevertheless without fighting Lewis he never became a legitimate champion at heavyweight. So although Jones ranks above Leonard in the multi weight stakes, nonetheless Jones is also a champ across Three weights.

Oscar De la Hoya
I think we can all agree that Oscar was never a recognized champion at either 130 or 160. Having actually fought at those weights he lays far a better claim to being so than Leonard lays to Light Heavy, but in my estimation Oscar is still a champ across Four Weights.

James Toney
He comes closer than Roy because he did it after Lewis had retired. That's purely a technicality of course, but it would have made him a recognized champion as a major titleist in the absence of a undisputed champion. However, he failed the drug test, so he doesn't get it. He is a champ across Four Weight Classes.

--The Nearly Men!--ray:

Ray Robinson
Heat aside, he almost certainly would have.

Sam Langford
If he had gotten the shots he undoubtedly would have. Really we should give him the credit as if he did, but the bottom line is he didn't.

Bob Fitzsimmons
Cruiserweight didn't exist in Fitzsimmons' time - should we really hold this against him when he accomplished the exact thing that would have given Jones and Toney the title of champ across 5 divisions? IMHO, YES. It didn't exist in Fitzsimmons' time for one simple reason - the jump from Light Heavy to heavy WAS a legit one division jump (Fitzsimmon's beat an 184lb man to win the Heavyweight title). So IMO, Fitzsimmons is a champ across four weights.

--The Wild Card--:notallthere:

Dingaan Thobela(thanks MikE!)
He won titles at 135 and 168 - that makes him a titleist across SIX weight classes. IMO a HOF accomplishment in and of itself. But was he a legitimate champion at both Lightweight and Super-Middleweight? I'm open to be convinced either way. I'm welching on this one ::

--The Great Men!--:cheer:

Floyd Mayweather
A legit champ at Super featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight & Light Middleweight (Thanks steve_dave), Mayweather is a legit champ across Five Weights.

Thomas Hearns.
A legit Welterweight champion, a legit Light Middleweight champion, slightly weaker claims to the 160 and 168 divisions, but that's irrelevant because the wins over Adries & Hill make him a legit champ across Five Weights.

Roberto Duran
The Greatest Lightweight of all time, also a legit champ at 147, 154 & 160. Duran is a champ across Five weights

Henry Armstrong
Last but not least, the man who was legit champ across 5 weight classes AT THE SAME FUCKING TIME.:: Holy shit, it gets more impressive every time you think about it. Armstrong - champ across Five weights.

--The Undisputed Champion!--:fightme:

Manny Pacquiao
I've been pissing and moaning about boxing lately, but we've just witnessed something that's NEVER been done and will NEVER be repeated - Manny Pacquiao is not only just the fifth man in boxing history to achieve this feat, he has superseded Mayweather, Hearns, Duran and Armstrong by becoming a champ across not five, not six but SEVEN divisions.

All hail Manny Pacquiao, the undisputed multi-weight champion of all time.:bears:

Anyone agree or disagree with my list? Am I missing anybody out?

 

Roy's the greatest because he conquered the largest gap between weight divisions.

Sure Pacquaio is a multiple titlist, but going over a span of 20-25 pounds.

Roy conquered divisions over a span of 50+ pounds.

 

You are missing out that Manny is a world champion in four divisions, never defended his belt in two divisions, and beat a bum, who should have lost his belt to a shot Erik Morales. Why shouldn´t Bredahl count for Oscar if Diaz counts for Manny? :dunno:

 

Cmon, you know the answer...it's because he doesn't want him to count.

 

Considering that those two factors are totally wrong would that make him an achiever? Winky was scheduled and fought at 160 one week later and never fought again below 160 and second, Oscar was in fact the one who stipulated to fight at 154 and no less, Floyd weighted in less because he's clearly too small for the division and still won.

 

That's why I asked if I got anything wrong. My memory is far from infallible. If people wanna make the case for Floyd I'm very open to hearing it.

 

:mj:

 

Read the very first paragraph, numnuts! :bangh:

Diaz was still a recognized champ.

I'm open to anybody making the case for Oscar's 130 title win standing. I wasn't really around then - was there a recognized champ at the weight (equivalent of a Ring mag champ today)? Was the WBO title really legitimate enough to qualify him? I'm open to somebody making the case. I didn't say my list was definitive, just my take on the question.

 

BTW / I disagree with Manny being a 7 division champ as well.

 

Nevertheless though - Winky was THE RECOGNIZED 154 champ at the time and had yet to relinquish. Bottom line is Floyd won a title but never became a recognized champ. i think my point still stands, but as I said, Im open to other perspectives. Hell, my criteria are my own - if you wanna argue for totally different criteria feel free.

 

Champ ACROSS 7 divisions. Why do you disagree?

 

Yeah the whole "cross divisions" opens up another can of worms. What if you never fought at that weight?

For example Shane Mosley at 140.

He was a champ at 135 and 147, and 154.

Does that make him a 4 weight divison champion?

 

No it makes him a champ ACROSS 4 weights. I don't see the can of worms at all. :dunno: :: It's just another criteria for judging multi weight accomplishment.

 

I know exactly what Hut Hut is talking about. It's not exactly hard to grasp.

Mosley being the lightweight champ then winning the WW title - no it doesn't make Mosley a champ at 140, it just makes him a champ SPANNING 3 weights, not a 3 weight champ. Simple.

 

Hut Hut, Roy is the greatest because he's been the champ over a greater weight disparity than the others. :cheer:

 

I suppose it makes some sense, but it gets muddy when you "take away" wins if someone isn't considered by whoever makes such a list as the champion.

Are we talking about linear title-holders, ring magazine champs, or general concensus of who was the best?

 

Winky had not been campaigning at 154 for a couple years when Floyd fought Oscar. And on that note, are you counting lightweight for Pacquiao?

 

Of course, but it's exactly the same when deciphering when someone is a however-many-weight champion. Some people might consider a certain belt being valid or legit, others might not.

 

Whatever way you want to spin it though, Manny is the winner :kidcool:

 

That's a legit point. Who's multiweight accomplishments are the greatest probably would've made a much better thread, tbh. :: BUT, a bunch of guys in history have traversed Middle/super middle and Heavy pretty successfully. Langford, Patterson, Fitzsimmons, Charles, Toney off the top of my head. NOBODY I can think of ever went from Flyweight to lightweight (and up to welterweight). So that suggests to me that even though there's less between the jumps in terms of the numbers, there's a bigger barrier between the jumps in terms of physicality. :dunno:

Plus, my list was just about who's become legit champs at various weights anyway, so pipe down.::

 

I know it's tricky. The basic criteria in my mind is - was there a guy at the weight who woulda been 'Ring Champ' at the time
Yes - then you have to fight and beat him to be a legit champ
No - then you just have to win a legit title to be a recognized champ.

It's messy, but such is life in modern alphabet soup boxing. And as I said, that's just my criteria, you're welcome to discard it.

 

Ok, then I was wrong -

Floyd is a legit champ across 5 weights in my eyes.:bears:

Mayweather
Hearns
Duran
Armstrong
Pacquiao

Does anyone wanna convince me there's a 6th?

 

There are ways to argue otherwise, but I generally say that the WBO titles became legit when Oscar beat Rafael Ruelas ~1995. They had some titlists before then that were better than some of the other 3, but Oscar won the IBF and then dismissed it in favor of the WBO belt.

So does Bredahl count? Sort of yes, sort of no. That no one would have ranked him above the other 3 really hurts. That Oscar beat the better 130 champs later (at 135) helps a little.

If you do count it, it doesn't mean much when put into perspective.

And Dingaan Thobela should be in this thread.

 

Then Roy never won the light heavy belt.

 

Wow - GOOD call. I'm not sure if he meets my criteria (I'm gonna check if he does or not), but he IS a titleist over SIX weight classes. :bears:

And you're completely right that somebody COULD argue for Oscar if they wished. I just don't think the WBO title was legit enough in 95 for him to qualify.

 

Cummon man, i don't think anybody could ever argue that Roy wasn't a recognized Light Heavyweight champ. Even if it was only when he came back down and beat Tarver.

 

How about Georges Carpentier. He was the European welter champ at age 14, and fought all the way up to heavyweight, losing to Jack Dempsey in 5 rounds. He was a lightheavyweight champ at one point. He was also a heavyweight champ at one point, but it wasn't the recognized world title.

 

Fuck me, I completely forgot about him. I think Georges has to be the winner, champ or not, if I recall he started ridiculously low, flyweight or featherweight, and at least challenged for the HW title.

 

your criteria mention the ring belt and the LH equivalent of the ring title hasn't left germany in over 10 years except for when julio gonzalez took it home to look at it for a few months.

 

Don't confuse linear with recognized or legitimate. They're related but definitely not one and the same. Roy was a recognized and legitimate LH champ, IMHO.