Roman Gonzalez vs Juan Francisco Estrada III

The final fight between Chocolatito and Gallo is this weekend. Who do you guys favor to close the show on this thrilling rivalry? Chocolatito looked amazing in his last fight against Martinez while Gallo had a much a harder than expected fight against unknown Argi Cortes while still edging it in a great scrap. This will be yet another tough encounter for both but hoping to see a great closure to this amazing rivalry. May the best man win.

 

Just watched Chocolatita’s last fight against Martinez.
Guy is as good a lighter weight fighter as we’ve ever seen.

prime Gonzalez, …hard for anyone in history to beat him.

 

Takes Estrada out this time,…early

 

I’m old.
I remember watching Wilfredo Gomez back in his heyday.
He never bear a fighter as good as Chicolatita

 

Chocolatito is better than Wilfredo Gomez,..in every way

 

You do realize that Wilfredo Gomez would be waayyyyyy too big for Chocolatito, right? It'd be over inside of 3.

Even in a P4P sense, Chocolatito is not in Gomez's league.

Gomez had a more dominant prime, over vastly better fighters, and he was more gifted than Gonzalez both offensively and defensively.

There is NO fucking comparison between them.

One guy was considered P4P #1 over Golovkin and Kovalev for a period.

The other was considered P4P #1 over Leonard, Duran, and Hagler for a period.

 

Zarate would wipe his ass with Chocolatito.

 

There's quite literally no facet of boxing that Choco is better than 78-80 Gomez at.

 

Back to the topic at hand: I do think I'm gonna side with Choco to take a decision in this rubber match. He is a great fighter, while Estrada is a "very good."

 

i disagree they're not in the same league. only way to conclude that is to vastly overrate gomez.

 

gonzalez has accomplished more than gomez in his career.

 

No, it's Gonzalez who's being vastly overrated. He often is on this forum. He's talked about like he's Ray Robinson on this forum at times.

Gomez beat better fighters and was more talented.

 

If by accomplished more you mean won titles in more weight classes against inferior opposition, then sure, I guess.

If you value single division dominance, which not many people do anymore because they're enamored by weight jumping, then Gonzalez has no case.

No fighter in the lower divisions has been as dominant in their division as Gomez since Gomez. That's a fact.

 

Neil,

Tin already absolutely obliterated your Gonzalez over Gomez argument a few months ago, and you couldn't even reply to him.

I prop up Gomez on this forum probably because the rest of Fightbeat, save for Tin and George, vastly underrates him.

Actually, correction, I think on the thread in question you said that Choco had a better resume than Fighting Harada (LMAO!!!!). Tin destroyed that statement and correctly said that even if you REMOVED the two Jofre wins, Harada STILL has a better resume. When you add the two Jofre wins, it's just embarrassing in Harada's favor.

Point being, you tend to overrate Choco. Like alot.

I don't feel I overrate Gomez, because in my top 10 Latin fighter OAT topic that i once posted, I don't think I put Gomez top 5. I don't consider Gomez in the class of quality as say, Duran, Monzon, or Arguello.

But its not overrating Gomez to say that at 122, he was one of the most talented and complete fighters to ever live.

I have never not once said that Chocolatito is NOT an all time great. But he tends to get a lil overblown at times considering his underwhelming resume relative to the greats he's compared to.

Gonzalez, in my opinion at least, is more on par with Trinidad in greatness than he is to Gomez. And that's not even a slight, it's a compliment - Trinidad was a great great fighter. Moreover, Trinidad held the P4P king title in a MUCH MUCH MUCH deeper talent era in the sport as a whole compared to Choco's era.

But somehow, I feel you'll make it seem as if Tito wasn't in Choco's league.

 

I'm alllllllllllll ears for a pro-Chocolatito over Gomez argument, btw. But I've never heard one. Just basically a "Nahhhh, Gomez is overrated. Choco is incredible." Bullshit.

What is Chocolatito's case over Gomez? Please tell me.

Choco's resume of wins is weak by comparison.

One guy lost once in his effective prime... to Sal Sanchez.

The other got smashed in his prime by a crude, poor man's version of Khaosai Galaxy in Rungs. Not even a sustained beating like Gomez took... a 4 round blowout loss.

Choco's ONLY argument would be better longevity; which okay, he lives a clean life, while Gomez partied and coked. But Gomez still got more done over the late 70s to mid 80s than Choco has in his career.

 

I absolutely love Chocolatito but let's be honest here he does not have a win over a fighter that's as close to the same caliber as Carlos Zarate, nuff said.

 

I think Estrada being called as just "very good" is a little too harsh. He's most definitely a world class fighter and future HOF fighter who managed to avenge all of his losses.

 

How is very good harsh? I don't see Estrada as a great, I'm sorry.

Very good is only one tier below great.

 

I dunno I think his resume is being sold short here. He has wins over:

Roman Gonzalez
Carlos Cuadras 2x
Srisaket Sor Rungvisai
'Tyson' Marquez
Giovanni Segura
Milan Melindo
Brian Viloria
Juan Carlos Sanchez

WBO and WBA Flyweight Champ, WBO and WBA Super Flyweight Champ

Pretty damn impressive if you ask me. He's arguably the best Mexican fighter of this era besides Canelo.

 

That victory is overrated. Fuckin foul fest over a guy coming up in weight (and somehow still managed to struggle to make 122) who wasn't at his best. Great win on paper but not as great when you delve further into it


As far as primes. It's a bit puzzling how anyone can consider gonzalez in his 30s and 4th weight division to be in his prime

 

Zarate came into the Gomez fight neck-and-neck with Duran as being considered the best fighter in the world, and got blown away in 5 rounds in a non-competitive fight. I'm sorry, but you can't throw that win away simply because it hurts your pro-Choco argument. That's not how this works.

You wanna throw it out cause Zarate was moving up? Fine! Then by that SAME TOKEN, we throw out Gomez's loss to Sanchez. So, if that's gone, Gomez went undefeated his entire prime.

And by allllll means, let's only take Chocolatito's 20s.

What did he do in his 20s to be on par with Gomez? I'll wait allllll day on an answer.

 

And Explosivo's trolling post can't even counter to explain which "every way" Choco was better than Gomez. Can't answer that, can you? Well, I will:

Hmmmm, let's see? Gomez was quicker, FARRR more athletic and mobile, a bigger P4P puncher, better reflexes and head movement, better combinations (which is Choco's best attribute, and Gomez has him beat even there), a better chin considering it was proven against better comp, and better stamina.

But please, let the unbelievable overrating of the guy who will FOREVER live in Arguello's shadow continue.

 

Jury is out on a lot of Choco matches at various weights.

We don't know if he could beat Finito at 105.

We don't know if he could beat Chang, Zapata, Yuh, and Carbajal at 108.

We don't know if he could beat A LOT of great flyweights.

And by his history at 115, its kind of doubtful he could beat a super flyweight great like a Galaxy, Watanabe, Roman, or Moon.

How many junior featherweights are ever realistically favored over Gomez? They're not, because it's not realistic. Neither Barrera nor Morales were as dominant or as complete as Gomez at 122, and Gomez would have ass raped Neil's favorite front running, quitting Cuban.

 

Gomez should have been disqualified vs zarate. Having the fight in his back yard and being with king helped

 

Zarate was not competitive against Gomez. He got blown away. King wasn't in there beating the fuck outta Zarate. The Puerto Rican crowd wasn't in there beating the fuck outta Zarate. Wilfredo Gomez was.

 

Let's move on though. I didn't intend at all for this thread to become about Gomez. But those first few ignorant posts had to be addressed.

Chocolatito is a class champion and a first ballot HOFmer. He also has a beautiful offensive style.

 

you said gonzalez is not in gomez's league. i disagree. you can argue gomez was better than gonzalez. but in a different league? no. that's an exaggeration.

 

We'll have to disagree.

While I'm not talking some gigantic gap, like a gap between Roy Jones and Fernando Vargas, I do think there's a clear enough advantage that I place Gomez in a higher tier of greats than Gonzalez.

 

Nor Pintor. Probably not even Davila either.

 

I'd say Gonzalez has better stamina. He three something like 1200 punches against Cuadras.