I can see Jones putting Rocky down and building a bit of a lead. But over 15 especially you're talking about an inevitability.
Unless we are talking about the Roy who fought Ruiz. Rocky probably decisions or stops that Roy late. Prime Roy busts up Rocky's face after winning 8 of 10....or so. Maybe that's being generous, but a pressure fighter is bound to get a few gimmes, even if he isn't really landing.
Roy has a very good chance of pulling this off. Marciano was not the one-punch KO artist he is often portrayed as. He got most of his KOs (even the famous Walcott one) by continuously throwing power shots and breaking his opponents down. I am not sure he would land enough of them. I think Jones was even more difficult to hit than the same-sized, 37 year old Walcott, who outboxed Rocky for number of rounds
It's really not even a matter of opinion. Jones was one of the most elusive fighters in the sports history for several years, regularly winning fights with a 120 points in his prime. Post-prime LHWs were able to outbox slow, T-Rex armed Rocky Marciano, it really isn't a question to me who wins this particular fight. Jones' elusiveness is often completely ignored and also for some reason, the erroneous dogma that punching Roy Jones in the face would leave him unconscious simply because he was KO'd by big punches while he was in his mid to late 30s and past it. Rocky has virtual no advantages in this fight other than punching power and a chin(but this is a MM afterall, that's all that matters), and really, Jones had probably just as much if not more one-shot KO power than just about anyone Rocky has faced. In fact, I'd wager Jones to be the hardest, since the Joe Louis that Rocky fought was 97, other than a 40 year old Archie Moore, who did hit harder than Jones certainly. Otherwise, he is outsped by an incredibly margin, outsized, outreached by a considerable margin, and even is lesser in pure boxing ability. His advantage in chin is even negated by the fact that, as Charles demonstrated, he could be cut up bad enough to be stopped if tagged enough, which he certainly was, as his defense sucked.
You're young. That's cool. But seriously you need to watch more boxing and tune into what you're watching. Ruiz had no problem cornering Roy early every time he tried to. Roy's feet weren't quick enough to keep him out of range of John Ruiz. However Ruiz being the veritable Boxing Bible he is, decided to undertake the rest of the fight at long range. And of course, in the intervals where he showed the aggression he needed to win we were reminded that Ruiz can't/won't fight inside anyway. So he leaps in with a couple of shots from mid range & sinks into the inevitable clinch & the ref breaks it. He gets nothing done up close. This isn't Marciano. I can barely think of a style more well suited to sending Roy Jones into a coma than Marciano's relentless, consistent, pot shot slugging. It's an inevitability. Like you Im of the opinion that the Jones who fought Tarver wasn't the same. But that was after the weight loss. He looked fine against Woods and if he was slower against Ruiz then it's only because he was carrying an extra 20lb, like he would be here too, more or less.
Walcott & Charles have much better chins than Roy Jones, IMO. And both of them took serious, serious shots before succumbing - shots I don't think Jones would have stood up to. Jones didn't look nearly as elusive against Ruiz (because of the increased weight) as he did lighter and faster. I honestly don't give him a prayer.
The Roy that fought Ruiz was extremely past his best. Slow and fat, and likely undertrained, but really didn't matter considering he was just better than Ruiz. He weighed also 208 at fight time for the Ruiz fight, so it was more than 20lbs. And certainly more than the 15 he'd be carrying over the LHW max. The Woods fight he was also past it, but not as much, not sure what happened to Roy really, but his definite best was at the time of the Hill, Griffin and Toney fights. After that he just seemed bored, and would do shit like playing basketball games before fights.
Walcott and Charles probably had better chins compared to Jones, but by how much, it is difficult to tell. After all, the first time Roy ever really went down was against Tarver, when he was getting old and had lost durability with his weight loss. And as I said, even if Walcott has clearly the better chin compared to Jones, I think Jones would take clearly less punishment too. And call me crazy, but I think that Jones' quick and sharp counters would make it difficult for Marciano to just walk forwards. Despite the legends, he also could be hurt and Jones would land often. I say Marciano is the favorite, but it could go either way. Btw you and I know both know p4p fights are stupidy, would you pick Marciano if he was a natural 175 lbser?
Ask anyone picking Jones to win how a truly great, legendary Middleweight or small Light-Heavyweight from around or before Marciano's era would do in this fight, & watch them pick Marciano every time. Jones, though, was born much later...he must be good enough.
Another thing that may have some significance, at the time of the Ruiz fight, Roy had started working on his rap career, and this ties into all of those out of the ring distractions that plagued the unhungry RJJ post-98. He really carried through with the rap career too, all the way up until 2005 he was hitting a stride and working with a lot of big names in the industry. Certainly didn't have the work ethic he needed to maintain his boxing skills and shape when it was only going to get harder for him with age.
Yeah I'd agree with that, but he looked in decent nick against Woods, so I think he still had 95% of his faculties. And looked like the same old Roy against Kelly & Gonzalez, though granted bored and unmotivated. I don't think he was so declined that the Ruiz fight isn't instructive. And I also find it hard to fathom that Jones would gain 15lb post weigh in in a fight he had to weight train to bulk up for. Im afraid you'll have to colour me dubious on that stat. Either way, I don't think he stands a chance against a guy as good, durable and aggressive as Marciano.
How would we know? Rocky only fought great LHWs that were past their primes. And they still gave him tough fights. :dunno: Who really knows how Charles and Moore do assuming they are at their best....hell, even Walcott, probably a small HW for those standards, was certainly past his best when Rocky fought him.
I'm afraid if you're going to go down that road (outside distractions), you have an excuse for just about every man who ever laced up the gloves.
In fairness I think the problem was just boredom with the lack of challenges available. I've aways been of the opinion that Roy's resume up until 98 was perfectly respectable but after that it really swandives into a sewer & it's hard to motivate yourself when your fighting garbagemen and everyones on you case. But a fight for a heavyweight title when 50% of the people out there think you're gonna get starched is a pretty good motivator. I think Roy was as good as he could have been against Ruiz - I just don't think he handled 190lb+ well, given his frame size and style (then losing the extra muscle messed him up).
He did put on weight after the weigh in, from what I read. I can't remember how much weight it was exactly. I think it might've been 199 IIRC. I'll look around. I think 208 might've been erroneous.
199 rings a bell, but it still sounds like a spurious figure. Nobody puts on 6lb overnight unless they were dehydrated. Why the dickens would he dehydrate himself to make 193? Something doesn't add up.
Although, under the context of this fight, I do see Jones struggling to pick up that weight. However, assuming that 190 is the LIMIT, and both guys weigh in at their normal weights, 183ish and 175ish respectively. Jones takes this. At 190, I may have to flip-flop back to The Rock.
Wow. I am amazed at this. Prior to the second Tarver fight, your prediction would've been that RJJ stops Marciano on cuts, or by wide decision. Am I wrong? I'm not saying your prediction now is incorrect. I'm just amazed at the change of heart you've had regarding RJJ.
No idea. Im of the opinion, given his joint size (which is an extremely accurate predictor of frame size) that Marciano boiled down to the high 180s/190. He would easily have filled out 200+, but when your main opponents are the size of Walcott, Charles, Moore, there are advantages in being lighter. So if your round about implication is that he was a natural 175er by todays standards, then he'd be a huge one, IMO, and be the type who really piled on weight after the weigh in and would probably have to move up at some point. If your question is genuine, I'd probably say it becomes a 50/50 fight because the extra 15lb of natural size would have a big effect on the style dynamic in this one. I also think if he'd been 15lb naturally smaller Charles, Moore & Walcott would have beat him with something to spare. But as you say, that p4p match ups are retarded is probably the one boxing related thing we've always been in total agreement on ::
:tick: No. Billy Conn who nearly beat Louis might have beaten Marciano. Ezzard Charles, had he been in his prime, might have beaten Marciano. And yes, I do think that Jones at his best was better than either of them, so I think he might have beaten Marciano. But thanks anyway for forming my opinion
I just cant see Roy being able to keep Rocky off of him... I think he could win the first 6 rounds and still lose the fight
