SERIOUSLY, Did Nate's QUESTIONABLE Tactics CONTRIBUTE to his Win???

N a SMALL Way, Juan Diaz vs. Nate Campbell Reminded REED of Holyfield vs Tyson I...The WINNING Fighter was VERY SUBTLE w/his Borderline DIRTY Tactics...

For the Record, REED PREDICTED a Juan Diaz WIN & Juan CLEARLY LOST, "However", Nate Campbell Used Some QUESTIONABLE Tactics N the Early Going to ASSIST N his Win...

OR, was he On his Way to WINNING Anyways???:dunno: ...Correct REED if he's WRONG...

The 1st Headbutt was CLEARLY Intentional N REED's Opinion...& The MORE DAMAGING Cut was Opened by a PURPOSEFUL Headbutt...

Tonight's Win WAS impressive, Cause Nate Stood FLAT-FOOTED w/ the YOUNGER, STRONGER Juan Diaz, but was he @ Least FLIRTING w/the Rules w/his Tactics???



REED:dunno:

 

:dunno: Hopkins and the guy you mention (Holyfield) have made second career's out of borderline dirty stuff. I didn't see tonights fight, but Nate Campbell is no saint in there. Nobody should be. It's a rough sport and the other guy wants to kill you. You do what you do to win, IMO.

 

Nate was filthy all night... but I think the result had more to do with the fact that Diaz can't punch finally catching up to him.

IMO, if Diaz can punch, Nate is on his back by round 5.

 

I haven't heard anyone else say it except you and me (imagine that). It was clearly a lunge to get his head into the middle of Diaz's face. That disgusted me after seeing that and how he went for the cut during every clinch. I know boxing is a rough sport but that's just dirty in any sport. Intentionally causing an injury to your oppenent and then opening it up during clinches. The fact that no one else has a problem with that strategy kind of tells me where the sport is. I have no allegiance to Juan Diaz and I have no hatred for Nate Campbell. I just think this crossed the line. I've heard so much bitching over Hatton's hugging and that's nowhere CLOSE to what campbell did. I don't know. :dunno:

 

Well when I see it, if I think it's intentional, it'll be three of us. ::

The sport has always "been there", Cal. Zivic? Duran? Armstrong? Ketchel? Walker? Saddler? Gomez?

And it gets pointed out, but fans have never gotten TOO outraged around it...it's a part of the sport and it is up to the opponent to know how to deal with it.

Not my 'preferred' style, but it goes with the territory.

It's not the death-knell of the sport...it's always been there.

Peace.

 

I agree somewhat.

I mean with Diaz style and ability, the fact that he has a 50% KO percentage speaks wonders about the toilet paper hands he has IMO.

If he had heavy hands, he'd be scary good.

 

Okay, maybe I didn;t mean so much "the sport" as the fans.

IMO, if you take an opponents eye away(and Diaz did tell his corner that he couldn't see and fought several round protecting the eye) you take out 50% of his vision which means he can't see punches coming from that side and can not see openings to attack on that side either.

Now in tonight's fight, the eye was taken away by illegal means. An intentional headbutt in round 1 caused an initial cut and then opened up by several punches during clinches where Campbell was obviously targeting the same spot he intentionally headbutted. Sorry, this ISN'T boxing. I know it was a major upset but i dont see it as a heroic performance and the fact that people here do really tells me something. People are talking like nothing illegal happened. Seriously, honor in this sport might be something that is in the past. :dunno:

 

Sure they did. It was a rough, dirty, hardcore performance. But like someone else said, it was nothing that people like Holy and Hopkins haven't made a career out of.

It was a great performance, he did what he had to do to win, it was a determined and gutsy performance, and if you're tactical enough to get away with what you can without beign disqualified or having 10 points taken away, then good on you.

It was a career best performance, dirty or not. I am not a campbell fan at all, but it was impressive.

 

I haven't seen the fight yet, but my thoughts on stuff like this are well documented elsewhere.

Butting, groin shots, spoiling, clinching, rabbit shots, weird 'shoulder roll' defences are ALL part of the game. It ain't a love in once you get in that ring. You do whatever you have to (and can get away with) to win. Any trainer worth a damn will teach young, aspiring fighters a collection of dirty tactics. It's part of the game.

As others have said, some of the best guys around today have made a career from stuff like this. It's called 'ring smarts'. Expect to see a plethora of it when Hops tries to stop Joe throwing a zillion shots per round next month. If a fighter fails to prepare for these tactics, then that's mis-preparation on their part IMO.

Boxing- NO SOFTIES ALLOWED :blobbox:

MTF

 

Do you mean the type of power required to spot lift 1000 pounds one foot off the ground.

 

That was DEFINITELY a Factor...

What's WEIRD about it is Juan DOES Get Good Leverage & Torque on his Shots, from Time to Time...He's NOT a Winky Wright Type that just Looks to TOUCH a Guy...

But like U Said, the Cat CAN'T Punch for Shit...He Could Bitchslap a WOMAN & Not Affect her...


REED

 

Yeah Reed ,no softies allowed:::clap:

 

::

Hey, REED REALIZES that a Prizefight ISN'T a Tickling Match or a Lovefest...It's CALLED a "Fight" for a Reason...

But CAN'T There B HONOR N a "Fight"???:dunno: ...

REED would Feel MUCH Better about Whipping a Man's Ass w/THE GLOVES, as Opposed to Headbutting his Way to a Win...



REED

 

But it's not like that's all he did. He landed 400 punches, hard punches, good bodyshots, and just gave Juan a terrific beating. The state of Juan's face was more down to the punches than headbutts.

In the same vein, Floyd used his elbow and forearm far more against hatton than Campbell did last night, but that's certainly not what won him the fight, it was just part and parcel.

And Juan's game is a rough inside fight, so he can't really complain that someone used their head a bit.

 

If that wasnt an ass whipping Brother REED, I dunno what is. The head butts played a minimal factor IMO. Diaz simply met a guy who could match his fury, and workrate, and who proved to be stronger, and more powerful.

 

Exactly, that's what I feel. What REED and Caligula seem to be neglecting to mention/consider is that Campbell landed a handful of butts, most of them just head "rubs"................ and yet 400 punches ::

 

No, I saw the fight but here is how I see it. Everything Campbell did tonight worked against a one eyed fighter. A fighter with no vision on one side of his body, a fighter who had to protect that injury in fear the fight would be stopped because of it. Why was Nate fighting against a one eyed fighter? Because he intentionally headbutted that eye in round 1 then opened it up during clinches by targeting it.

That's not comparable to any other fight I've seen recently. Not Mayweather's elbows, not Holyfield's head, not Ruiz's clinching. There was no honor in that win at all. :nono:

 

The headbutt in round 1 looked more like a push with head, pushing Juan away while they were clinching. And he didn't become a 1 eyed fighter immediately, it was in the latter part of the fight that his eye totally closed up.

He was pretty rough and dirty sure, but you can't just dismiss his whole performance based on the headbutt. Headbutts do happen in boxing.

 

I have another thread where I'm offering any believer in Campbell a chance to make money off of me in the rematch. Only Valdosta has agreed.

That's how much I believe the win was a total cheat job. Diaz should ask for a rematch and get a competent ref in there.

 

You mean the kind of ref that wouldn't have taken a point for Campbell landing a punch in a clinch? ::

Campbell is not the kind of fighter I would bet on. He's simply not consistent enough, he's not a proven elite fighter.

Having said that, I would pick him in the rematch, I just wouldn't bet on it.

 

GREAT Win for Nate, but the Thing Is, His INTENTIONAL Headbutt Cut & DISTRACTED Juan...

w/Out Question, Nate FLIRTING w/the Rules CONTRIBUTED to his Win...Perhaps he WOULD have Won Anyways, but we Don't Know....


REED:dunno:

 

REED CAN'T Believe he's Saying this, but he AGREES w/U 100%...

What the Fuck's Gotten Into YOU???


REED::

 

IMO a Corrales or Morales or that calibre of fighter wouldn't have got discouraged the way Diaz did. That's what lost him the fight.

Sure Nate butted him, but you are not getting disqualified for 1 headbutt.

And cuts and butts are part of boxing.

If ALL Campbell was doing was butting Diaz round after round and grappling etc, I would agree with you, but it wasn't like that at all.

He just beat his arse, and landed hundreds of hard, accurate punches, and great bodyshots.

 

Nah, the 1st Round Headbutt was CLEARLY Intentional, Brother MEX...It was Almost CasamayorESQUE:: ...

Nate INTENTIONALLY FOULED Juan, then Successfully TARGETED the Injured Area for the Remainder of the Fight...Smart???...Crafty???...Yep...But Undeniably DIRTY was Well...

Sure, N The Process, he OUTWORKED & OUTLANDED Juan Diaz, but it was APPARENT that Diaz was DISTRACTED & OUT of Sorts BECAUSE of the Cut...

It's NOT Like Juan Diaz has NEVER Been Tagged Repeatedly N a Fight...But he had NEVER been Cut like THAT N a Fight...

Nate Campbell TOOK Juan Diaz's Title Last Night...No Doubt about it...But if ANY Fight SCREAMS for a RE, it's Campbell-Diaz...



REED

 

I watched the fight in shit quality, on a stream, I'll rewatch it in proper quality to see the butt etc.

Even if the butt was completely intentional, you have to admit - it's not like there were repeated headbutts after that. For the rest of the fight, it was a legit arse whupping.

 

agREED...

REED has Grown to RESPECT Juan Diaz, but REED NEVER Thought he was on the Level of the Cats U just Mentioned...

Certainly, Juan Responded POORLY to Nate's Tactics...& Later On, it LOOKED like Juan was on the Verge of Being STOPPED...

But the FACT REMAINS, Nate BLATANTLY FOULED Juan, PRIOR to Whipping his Ass...


REED

 

You can add Cassamayor to that list as well which makes me wonder how Juan would have done against him last night.

I missed the headbutt so I'm not going to comment on intential or not, but let's assume it was. Juan is supposed to be prepared for such instances and fight through adversity. Lot's of fighters when they get a cut or a bruise will go for broke and try to get their opponent out of there, yet Caligula II sees Juan as a helpless little baby who got cheated and had no choice but to lay his hurt little eye on Nate's shoulder so he could nestle it and love it to sleep. To me it didn't look like Juan was protecting his eye by laying on Nate's shoulder, it looked like he was having his will taken from him. Maybe that had a lot to do with the eye, maybe not, but you Caligula don't know that for sure like you keep making out and even a Diaz win in a rematch won't prove you are correct. Last night Nate was the better man, in a rematch who knows who it will be. Bottom line I honestly think Nate wins that fight last night even if there never had been a headbutt or eye swelling all that stuff did was make it easier for him.

 

:: :bears:

That's how I feel. Even if it was a dirty, intentional butt, these things do happen in boxing.

Elite fighters find a way to win, cuts, butts, hurt hands whatever.

 

the cut in round one was on the side of diaz's eye. the more damaging cut was on his eyelid, and was caused by a PUNCH in the clinch.

 

With all due respect Brother REED.... your starting to sound like the Hatton groupies who blamed the loss on Floyd's tactics. Or like the Mosley groupies who blamed the first Forrest loss on the headbutt. Or like the Tyson groupies who blamed his losses to Holy on the butts. Give Campbell credit instead of blaming the loss on the butts, then crediting Diaz on his heart. Juan got his ass whupped, and his will taken! Deal with it.