Special For Neil

Big Book of Boxing march 1976 poll of All Time Greatest Welterweights:

Armstrong, Napoles, Ross, Walcott, Robinson, top 5 in that order.

 

i cant even read that. but if it has barney ross ahead of ray robinson how seriously can anyone take it?

 

I paid ten bucks for this thing I didn't want.

OK, I'll try to take another photo to show you the numbers-Armstrong with 2, 046. Napoles with 1,554 and Ray way down at 1,122

 

Interesting. Is it a poll of journalists or fans or what?

 

Ive seen enough of Barney Ross fights to realize mayweather jr would beat the fuck out of him. I shudder to think what ray robinson wouldve done to the guy

 

It was a poll of fans.

Napoles was regarded as the best welterweight by many when he was champ, just like Floyd is now.

This was pre-1979 when Larry Merchant went nuts saying Ray Robinson was the greatest ever.

 

I agree.

But the original point was, I told you Napoles was regarded as one of the very top if not the top welter when he was Champ, similar to the way floyd is regarded now.

You asked for proof, here it is.

 

Interesting that it's a white guy on top of the poll. I wonder how many of the 8 divisions that was the case for

 

armstrong is on top isnt he?

 

Napoles vs Robinson would have been one hell of a fight

 

Ross finished third, hut hut.

I think Napoles beats any welterweight ever.

That's my opinion and a lot of other peoples, and as I indicated in Latin America, he is regarded as the greatest ever as well while Ray is regarded as the greatest ever in North America.

 

Armstrong black. :dunno:

 

Armstrong won in a landslide.

 

Fuck sake, yeah. I need my bed.

 

I thought Ross was No.one. I made a booboo.

 

Armstrong almost killed Ross, he carried him to the limit.

Barney was the best of his era, but back then boxers still really didn't know what they were doing for the most part as the art was not advanced yet.

Joe Louis was the first truly great modern fighter and it took years for Chappie Blackburn's methods to be adopted.

 

Nowadays ross would be no one not no.one

 

Sure

 

I'd love to see how Joe Louis would fare against modern fighters

 

According to wiki, not really:

"He was the son of Henry Jackson Sr., a sharecropper of African American, Irish and Native American descent and America Jackson, an Iroquois Native American."

Also, this thread has to be a big win for Karl? I've grown up with the 'SRR is the greatest boxer of all time and there is no debating it' line and would never have guessed that he would come in FIFTH in a poll on welterweights. This is even before SRL.

Karl, can you post a clearer picture, please. It looks like SRR might have beaten Armstrong in the "over 40" age group? Or at least came in 2nd?

 

Also, I didn't know that Armstrong never fought at 126 again after he moved up title chasing.

So, his "held three titles at the same time" is really just a technicality and not a real achievement, at least not how it is portrayed.
I'd cut him slack if it was a heavier title he never defended, but just because you don't give up your lowest-weight title when some other fighters do, doesn't mean you should get credit for 'holding three titles' at the same time.

 

Pretty sure he'd beat Jean Mormeck anyway

 

OK, I'll try to do it later today when I get off work.

Mike made some good points, Armstrong really won 4 Championships but his middleweight title fight vs. champion Ceferino Garcia was ruled a draw after everyone who saw it agrees that Armstrong won handily.

I loved Ray Robinson as a fighter, but he was not this unbeatable demi-god that brother Merchant makes him out to be.

He got whipped plenty of times, and was the recipient of some highly questionable decisions as a welterweight, including his title win over Tommy Bell that most folks had him losing.

 

I've read that as well but wasn't Garcia something of a paper/split champion at the time?

 

Can't recall, I'd have to look it up later.

 

I don't know that I'd rate Napoles as the best Welter ever, but I can't imagine anyone who knows anything about the sport not having him ranked AMONG the best. Did I miss a conversation where someone disputed this?

 

Neil disputed it and a couple of others here.

 

You do know that this could be just a case of Neil jerking your chain and disputing you just to be difficult? It wouldn't be the first time.

Also, I don't know how much stock I would put into a poll that rates Barney Ross as the #3 Welter.

 

That poll is 38 years old and a lot of footage was not available on Ross then, so I'm sure it is by reputation that he was voted that high.

Like I said, people usually claim that a great present day champion like Floyd is the best ever, and they did that with Duran and Pacquiao as well.

It was the exact same with Napoles when he was champion decades ago as people ranked him the best or near the best.

You have to remember there was no youtube or VHS tapes or DVD's back then when Ross and Walcott and others were rated.