Not that I think this is much of a contest but how long would it take Ray to get him out of there? Old Mosley did it in 9. Any chance Leonard does it sooner?
Blowout. Phony is impossible to miss, and Ray was quite an underrated puncher, and of course with the handspeed. Leonard TKO 6.
Phony could put fuckin brass knuckles in his gloves and it wouldnt matter. You're acting as if the the loaded gloves made Phony some all time great, or some devestating puncher. If Ray could take HEARNS, and Hagler's best, I wouldnt worry about Phony's punches. Phony lost to Paul Williams, even with his loaded gloves. I assume you mean the version of Phony that beat Cotto, right? Leonard would still shit all over him. The gap in speed, and skill is too great between these two. Plus Leonard could punch himself, harder than Mosley IMO. The fight would be simple. Ray moves around whilst lighting Phony up with combos. Eventually they take there toll, and Phony gets hurt. Ray jumps all over him and ends the fight. Simple as that. Margarito would not win a round. He's simply too slow, and basic.
If I've said it once I've said it 1000 times (and I HATE leonard) If Ray at 24 was around in the late 90's and today...there wouldn't be a DLH, Trinidad, Mosley, Mayweather, Wright, Margarito, Vargas, Cotto... They would simply be guys Ray beat. Well..I shouldn't count Floyd...he never would have moved to welterweight if Ray were around.
You're discounting the additional advantages gained from having loaded gloves. It doesn't simply give you better punching power. It allows you to land hurtful shots with minimal effort because you can let the weight of your hands as opposed to your muscles to generate the power. This I think is what accounted for Margarito's seemingly endless supply of stamina (and Tito's as well). If you watch, neither of those guys, since being found out, can fight as hard and as consistently over 12 rounds as they could when their gloves were loaded or illegally wrapped. Also, as basic as you make Margarito out to be, he's not easy to out-box. You have to fight him to beat him. This is because he throws so many punches, has such a long reach, with his loaded gloves doesn't need to load up, and can throw combinations while moving forward. Very few fighters can do that. And SRL would have a hell of a time dealing with the loaded gloved assault from Margarito. Margarito's long steps forward in combination with his massive work-rate would over-run SRL's neat foot-work, and we'd either see SRL hit a wall in rounds 10,11 or 12, or he'd try to fight Margarito and get knocked out. Again, this is the loaded gloved Margarito. The guy who fought Mosley? Who basically ran out of steam and was KO'd as a result, would not beat SRL.
And yet, aside from Hagler, who many thought he lost to, Benitez, and Hearns, who he was losing to handily before taking taking advantage of Hearns' fragile chin, SRL never beat anyone as good as the guys you've listed. He never fought McCallum. He never fought Jackson. He never fought Curry. He never fought Pryor. SRL was like the PBF of the 80's. Only nobody knew it. His win over Hagler has striking parallells with PBF's "win" over ODH. SRL is so over-rated I can't even laugh about it.
You can't be serious. Phony wouldn't lay a glove on Leonard. This isn't Roberto Duran we're talking about here. Hell its not even a Trinidad.
Duran? Initially I had a nicely worded put down written and decided against it. I'll let your post drown in it's own stupidity.
You should laugh because this is one of the more ridiculous posts you have ever subjected us to. There is nothing overrated about Ray Leonard. He is simply one of the greatest fighters ever to lace up a glove. If anything...folks these days forget...or simply don't know how good he really was. But then again...you think Kermit Cintron is "underrated". So why am I not surprised you would post this foolishness. And...now Leonard ducked Julian Jackson? Please stop with this foolishness. It's always kinda funny when you randomly choose "names" whose careers overlap with fighters you don't like and then make the ASSumption that the fighter you don't like was ducking them. Do you know ANYTHING about Julian Jackson's career outside of watching some of his KO highlights? I would explain the REALITY of Jackson's career to you, but you will most likely ignore all the facts presented and just continue on your stubborn way.
Furthermore, of those guys the only one I see having a shot at beating Ray would be Mosley. he's got the chin and mentality to fight Ray. Oscar would run, hope to flurry and stink out a decision Trinidad would be a KO victim. he wasn't as long and didn't have the jab of Hearns to keep Ray off him. We all know Tito had a fondness for eating right hands. Ray had power from both sides. margarito...sparring parter Cotto wouldn't have the chin to handle ray's shots. Vargas...didn't have the chin Mayweather...we saw what Ray did to his daddy. A shorter Jr wouldn't fare better.
agREED on all. Mosley would have the best shot because of his chin, handspeed and aggressiveness, but I think Leonard is the better and smarter boxer and would figure Mosley out after the early rounds.
And yeah, the circa 2000-2001 Shane would give Ray a good fight. He'd be the first guy Ray ever fought with comparable handspeed. Problem is, other than handspeed where they about even... Ray had almost everything else over Shane. Leonard via competitive, yet very clear UD over Shane in what woulda been a great fight. Cotto, and Margarito woulda been EASSSSY pickings for Ray. Vargas would fight bravely vs Ray, as he always did... but Ray would be too fast, and Nando was just too hittable. Leonard finishes Vargas with a hook in about 10 rounds. DLH is competitive early, but down the stretch Oscar fades and Leonard would beat the shit outta him. Ray Leonard was just THAT good. And Duran managed to beat him cause Duran was just THAT good also. None of the current welters come close to Duran, Leonard, and Hearns. Hell... Benitez would clean house at 147 today.
Absolutely. Mayweather would make some mock-serious "Calling out" noises but then would wait until Leonard made the move up to 154 or 160 before making a serious move to 147. And then he would claim he wanted Leonard all along but then Leonard moved up.
While i don't necessarily disagree, there is more to be said about the eras and quality of fighters. Leonard is an all time great and that should be crystal clear to anyone without a massive bias. I also agree that he's not only greater but would beat Oscar, etc. At the same time when we look back at guys such as the fab four + Benitez, any poor performance, hell even loss has excuses. There is no glossing over even the slightest hiccup with modern fighers. For example if Paul Williams moved up to 160 and knocked out Pavlik, then went to 175 and KO'd Chad Dawson people would still bring up how he lost to Quintana. (avenged or not) "If Quintana could outbox Williams imagine what Benitez could do" You never hear the opposite though. "If Hearns was wobbled by Roldan imagine what Pavlik would do" Why is that?
What if a prime Pryor was at 140 though? Would Floyd starve himself down to 135 for his whole career?:laughing:
Dunno about never. Seems like whenever Hearns gets matched up at middle there are always some (like Sly) who say something to the effect of "If Barkley could do it..." And the losses to Hagler and Leonard were held against Hearns for most of his career. And if he didn't beat Leonard (bad judging notwithstanding) in their rematch, Hearns might be looked more as a very good fighter who couldn't succeed at the highest levels rather than the great that he is. So...in a funny way...the KO loss to Barkley actually helped to enhance Hearns' career because we may not have seen Hearns-Leonard II without it.
I get what you are saying...but I kinda think you are generalizing. While they were still at or near their best...Hagler didn't lose a fight for 12 years before finally losing to Leonard in a close one, Hearns only lost to Leonard and Hearns, and Leonard only lost to Duran. It's hard to criticize fighters when they rarely lose and when they do lose, it is to some of the very best fighters in history. I will give you Duran...Duran was the telflon fighter. Nothing seemed to ever stick to him...even embarrassing losses.
Wow, we've got a nice old time loving thread going on here. Yeah, SRL was great. Duran too. One of the greatest. YEAH. But this is boxing, where the unexpected always happens. Hell, let's be serious here guys. We all love to post how this guy is gonna win so easily and how we're so sure but being realistic we're very often wrong. All of us (Except Double who's almost all the time wrong) but my point is the unexpected happens and I would bet my house that if those guys fought on a different era, the unexpected would happen as well and they would lose some fights, win others. Like it always happens in boxing. P.D. - Mayweather-Leonard would be fucking huge. Does anybody Floyd would avoid his biggest payday ever by far and the chance to become a superstar? No fucking way, Floyd would take the fight and end up losing against the bigger man.
