The Official Scorecard Thread

I couldn't find a scorecard thread on this site with it's search function, so I thought I'd create one. Please delete if I am misinformed

 

Since we recently discussed Jiro Watanabe, here is my score of his entertaining bout against Celso Chavez.


Jiro Watanabe vs Celso Chavez

Wat : Chavez

1: 10 - 10 (Not much happening. Feel out)
2: 10 - 9 (Very interesting match up. Vicious short punches)
3: 10 - 10 (Vicious exchanges. Very close)
4: 9 - 10 (Chavez just nicked it. Close)
5: 9 - 10 (Jiro struggling to get off here)
6: 9 - 10 (Nasty round. Chavez took it near end)
7: 10 - 9 (Jiro on left hands)
8: 10 - 9 (Jiro just taking it. Chavez hurt)
9: 10 - 9 (Jiro taking over now)
10: 10 - 10 (Jiro evening it with late attack)
11: 9 - 10 (Nasty exchanges)
12: 10 - 9 (Jiro again just taking it)
13: 9 - 10 (An exchange to finish, Jiro superior, but Chavez was more consistent)
14: 10 - 8 (An absolutely beautiful right hook to put Chavez down)
15: TKO (They're going for it!)

TOTAL = 135 - 133 WATANABE

Notes:

• Awesome fight, very tense, skilled and nasty. Lots of set up at the begining to eventually lead into razor close exchanges. Jiro obviously had lots of trouble with the long, fluid Panamanian, but he adjusted to the range, and grinded it out with short shots in the end for a savage TKO late.
• This would be very good to test scoring, as there are some razor thin rounds throughout.

 

There is no scorecard thread on this forum as it exists on ESB (until now) .

In the past, we've usually had scorecard debates on individual fights, but have yet to have a running thread such as this one.

I'll chime with one sometime this weekend. Probably Ortiz-Laguna III, as it's been awhile since I've watched it.

 

Hold on, RD. Give me a bit. I'll make this a sticky thread that'll remain at the top of the page, and merge your post in with it. I'll get to it later today.

 

You don't have to hurry on my account mate. I'm not even the most active of scorers anyway (at least not at the moment). Geroge, Jel and Scar take those positions .

 

Use this thread to provide scorecards for any recent fights you've seen. This can also serve as the platform to debate contentious decisions - which has traditionally generated a lot of replies on here.

@roughdiamond started it off for us. I plan to rewatch Ortiz-Laguna III within the next few days, and I'll score that.

 

Merged!

 

I'll start with one I rewatched recently

Winky Wright vs Tito Trinidad

1. 10-9
2. 10-9
3. 10-9
4. 10-9
5. 10-9
6. 10-9
7. 10-9
8. 10-9
9. 10-8 (deduction)
10. 10-9
11. 10-9
12. 10-9

Total: 120-107 Wright.

 

I rescored quite a few fights at the beginning of lockdown. Just trying to find my scorecards.

One of the ones I did was GGG-Canelo II. I've heard loads of people say Canelo truly deserved the win in that fight, and whilst he definitely performed better than he did in the first bout, I genuinely cannot see how that fight could be scored in his favour. I've no horse in the race either, they're both good fighters but not favourites of mine. GGG won clearly imo.

 

Apologies for those of you who frequent ESB as well as here but I'll probably be posting my cards on both sites - at least for now. Might cherry pick them a bit more here... we'll see. Anyway, with that in mind, here's my first one - to tie in with @George Crowcroft's SBW thread.

Daniel Zaragoza v Paul Banke 1

Terrific fight between the ageless Zaragoza and his future rival. This was an excellent battle in which I thought Zaragoza largely controlled the fight on the outside but Banke had his moments when they traded and hurt El Raton more than he was hurt himself.

Two of the three judges had it much clearer for Zaragoza than I did but I can it see it wider than I had it as most of the rounds I gave to Banke were close ones. I can't see a Banke win here as the other judge had it, even with the knockdown - Zaragoza controlled too much of the action and had I not been scoring it, I'm sure this would have felt like a clearer win on the cards. But that's why we score fights.

1 10-9 (good opening round)
2 10-9 (excellent work from Zaragoza - good body punching and bouncing in and out of range to land his shots. Banke swings and misses)
3 10-9 (closer. Some good exchanges)
4 9-10 (Banke's best round so far. He landed the more precise punches. Zaragoza is cut)
5 10-9 (this is a war. Zaragoza outlanding amd outworking Banke)
6 10-9 (Zaragoza controlling the fight)
7 9-10 (close. Banke just about edged it with what I think were the harder punches. Either way kind of round)
8 9-10 (close again. Banke had the better of the first half of the round and again landed the bigger shots before Zaragoza went back to boxing and controlled the second half of the round)
9 8-10 (big moment as Banke puts Zaragoza down and lands some big follow up punches. Banke has evened the fight up with that round)
10 10-9 (what a warrior! Zaragoza comes back hard to take the lead again)
11 9-10 (close)
12 10-9
Zaragoza 114-113 Banke

 

I've changed my mind. Instead of scoring Ortiz-Laguna III, which had a clear winner, it makes more sense to score a contentious decision.

I think I'll be rewatching Tua-Ike in the next few days and providing my official card on that. I previously had Tua winning, but who knows, maybe I sold Ike short.

Stay tuned...

 

Francisco Vargas v Orlando Salido

Wow. This was just an unrelenting brawl with both fighters having their moments to shine but neither buckling under the immense pressure they were both putting on each other.

I had it close throughout and have a drawn card as did two of the three judges. One or two points either way for either fighter would be reasonable though so the judge who had Vargas by two wasn't wildly off base. Love a great fight where the judges get it right.

Standout rounds? All of them were excellent but 5, 6, 10 and 11 were insane. Just a great, great fight.

1 10-9
2 10-10
3 9-10
4 9-10
5 10-9 (close. Great stuff - continual trading)
6 10-9 (Amazing action. Vargas seems to stun Salido on a couple of occasions. Salido still comes back hard)
7 9-10 (close - more awesome action)
8 9-10 (excellent round for Salido who appeared to stun Vargas)
9 10-9 (close again)
10 10-9 (relentless)
11 10-10 (both fighters took their turn to beat on each other)
12 9-10 (Salido with the stronger finish)

Vargas 115-115 Salido

 

Carmen Basilio v Sugar Ray Robinson 1

Thanks to @Ring Leader for the headsup - I saw this on Daily Motion.

So happy that this is the full fight. The first round is shortened but it has always been in the footage I've seen of it before.

I thought this fight could be split in two - the first half was close all the way, Basilio on the front foot and rushing Robinson with mixed success while Robinson moved smoothly on the back foot working the jab for the most part.

The second half was Basilio came on more and Robinson tired a bit, but planted his feet a bit more and the two fighters exchanged more freely.

Obviously this was a great win for Basilio but I was surprised how good Robinson looked in this fight - for a guy who was 37, he still moved fantastically well. It was only in the final third that his age probably caught up with him.

1 10-9 (incomplete round. Basilio the aggressor)
2 9-10
3 10-9
4 9-10
5 10-9
6 9-10
7 10-9 (this is nap and tuck all the way so far)
8 9-10 (Robinson continues to move well and control from the outside with the jab)
9 10-9 (Basilio throwing to fhe body more this round)
10 10-9 (good round for Basilio who is landing more regularly now)
11 10-9 (Robinson unloads a nice volley of punches on Basilio; Basilio responds by pummeling a tiring Robinson against the ropes)
12 9-10 (good round from Robinson. He seemed to hurt Basilio and landed some hard hooks)
13 10-10 (Basilio seemed like he had the edge until a late round flurry from Robinson that appear to stun Carmen a bit)
14 9-10 (close)
15 10-9 (close)

Basilio 144-142 Robinson

8-6 in rounds to Basilio with 1 even

 

Just joining in here guys.

I think I've seen every Frankie Warren fight that has been televised including his fights with Ronnie Shields and Roberto Elizondo that are not yet on youtube and I can't get enough of him. For lack of anything better to do I rewatched his second fight with Buddy McGirt, which I thought back in the day that the fight would be a rout like their first fight. Couldn't have been more wrong.

Buddy McGirt v Frankie Warren II

Round 1: 10-9 McGirt
Round 2: 10-9 McGirt
Round 3: 10-9 Warren
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 McGirt (the timekeeper rang the bell one minute early)
Round 6: 10-9 McGirt
Round 7: 10-9 McGirt
Round 8: 10-8 McGirt (scores a knockdown)
Round 9: 10-9 McGirt (the vid I watched cut to the next round with 55 seconds to go)
Round 10: 10-9 McGirt
Round 11: 10-9 McGirt
Round 12: The referee stops the contest in favor of McGirt

Total though 11 rounds: 109-100 McGirt (actual scores: 109-99, 107-101 and 110-99 all for McGirt)

It would be easy to say McGirt just had a better battle plan and execution this time around, but having gorged on Warren I can tell you he was flat in this fight. McGirt did fight a very good fight darting in and out while pot-shotting but Frankie's smoke was sorely missing. His style was not meant for a long career and he was starting to fizzle. I should note that the timekeeper error in the 5th round was costly to Warren. I won't go so far as the announcers (the fright doctor) who said McGirt was hurt, but Frankie had just nailed him with a terrific left hook and had him against the ropes. That kind of situation was Frankie's bread and butter as he was terrific at following up when a fighter was distressed. And that moment was taken from him. Lou Duva was working Warren's corner. Man, I can only imagine the holy hell he would've raised if he realized the round was a minute short interrupting Frankie's momentum.

 

I just watched a film I did not know was out there. The 1974 bout between Clyde Gray and Bunny Grant. The film was not hi-def by any means so I was a bit leery, but it turned out to be a very enjoyable contest between a very hot and very underrated welterweight in Gray and an 80 bout veteran at 33 years of age in Grant. Although scores were not displayed, I know Canada was using the 5-point must system at this time.

Clyde Gray v Bunny Grant

Round 1: 5-5 Even
Round 2: 5-4 Gray
Round 3: 5-4 Gray
Round 4: 5-4 Gray
Round 5: 5-4 Gray
Round 6: 5-3 Gray (scores a knockdown)
Round 7: 5-4 Gray
Round 8: 5-3 Gray (no knockdown but Gray batters Grant)
Round 9: Grant's corner retires him at the bell for the 9th

Total through 8 completed rounds: 40-31 Gray

I felt the first four rounds Grant was very competitive in. But in the 5th Gray's engine had amassed a full head of steam and he really took over from there and he let it rip. However, Grant was all heart and never gave up. Even in the 6th when he went down he was exchanging ferociously at the end of the round. The show itself was pretty cool because this was a tape being reviewed by the ringside commentator and Clyde Gray himself. Gray was very articulate and candid and gracious towards Bunny. He also talked about past foes such as Jose Napoles and Eddie Perkins. As I said, although the video wasn't top notch, the audio was. And when they're at the ropes above the camera, the viewer sees and hears every shot so vividly as they let those combos rip. Although Bunny was at the end of the trail by this time, one could see the handful he must have been in his 135-140 prime. And as for Gray, let's just say you can really get an idea how many belts he would have today. Man, this was a world class welterweight who was fighting in an era of 15 round world title fights not to mention 15 round Commonwealth championship fights. A truly impressive fighter.

 

McGirt's best performance.

A masterful clinic.

 

Brian Mitchell vs Jim McDonnell

Ok, I didn't score this one (not one for scoring in the late night). This was an interesting clash of styles - Mitchell, the well rounded, strong Boxer Puncher with a classical style leaning, and McDonnell, the well schooled, shifty footed straight puncher of a British ideality. Despite the commentators say, Mitchell started stronger, although not much work was done, as his body punching made the difference. Beautiful parry and slip into the right hand body shot. Reminiscent of the great Napoles' technique, which was used to great effect here to offset McDonnell's strong jab. The constant counters at first made him weary and lowered the work rate considerably. However, McDonnell started to find his way by the mid rounds, perceptive of Mitchell's bait - perception he used to start slipping inside and countering with a strong left lead and a body shot. A risky strategy that seemed to be paying off, as McDonnell started to change the momentum in his favour. McDonnell's footwork troubled the more leaden Mitchell throughout, at one point leading to Mitchell gesturing him to come forward. Despite this, Mitchell was disciplined and well educated in cutting McDonnell off with positioning and a constant double jab. McDonnell started to to counter this wit a left hook later on, but Mitchell yet again adjusted by switching his jab to the body more and throwing looping right hands, to body and head.

Further on, the bout was still competitive, but McDonnell lost his mid fight momentum and began to fall back into Mitchell's pattern. Still seeking to win, the ultra fit McDonnell decided that one last strategy of exchanging would be needed. Surprisingly, it worked for a time - landing some uppercuts and strong straight punches. Mitchell quickly came on, however, as the mid range trenches were his comfort zone. He quickly proceeded to batter McDonnell's body and counter to the head. A strong finish seized the decision for the Champion, in a competitive but decisive battle.

 

Gilberto Roman vs Santos Laciar II

For my first post on here (and hopefully with more to come), I thought I'd go with a couple good-uns. Last time - and the only time - I scored it, I had Roman up.

I felt like Santos gave away the first two rounds. He wasn't throwing much, but was looking for openings and kept on giving different looks. Taut the angles of his feet; trying to find the best way to get inside. In the third, he found it. A slip, shift, uppercut. His head-movement nullified Roman's jab, and he kept himself on Roman's chest, where Gilberto's brilliant movement could be abolished. How can you move if someone's pushing at the right moments, so you're off balance? It really kicked off in the fourth. Damn, this is a great fight, close too. I loved Roman's parries, and feints with his lead. Very economical, actually quite reminiscent of Michael Spinks IMO. Laciar was much more aggressive here. Up and down, in and out, constantly moving and throwing two/three punch combos as sharp as ever. He did get in position very neatly, and he really made the most of it; landing cleaner and winning the round IMO.

Great fireworks in the fifth from both. More head-movement from Roman here, as opposed to the movement he was using in the previous four. Worked well for him, and I thought his clean counters won the round. Another very close one. Santos elected to box on the back-foot in the sixth, it worked well. Brilliant footwork, and some very sharp counters as he retreated to the ropes, but I just can't ignore the activity of Roman with his left hand. Another very close round. For fuck's sake, another swing round! I think Laciar took this one. Roman's jab was again in his face, but he landed some of those brilliantly put together combos and counters, I had to give him it. Back to aggression from Laciar, and it's working well. Roman trying a mummy guard and stiff-arms off the ropes, but not throwing enough for my liking.

Laciar working the body to good extent in the ninth. Brilliant tenth. I felt Laciar's dominance over the first minute or so was more impressive than Roman barely getting the better of the tit-for-tat exchanges in the rest of the round. Laciar looking outstanding in that first minute. So accurate, with some unbelievable head-movement. He almost went unit, without missing. The cut on Roman's face (which round it occurred, I didn't pick up), causes the fight to be stopped in the eleventh. Shame, it was really good and looked to be getting better.

Roman-Laciar
10 : 9
10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10*
10 : 9* (48/47)
10 : 9*
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10 (94/96)
Laciar TKO11

I've said recently that Roman is my #1 SFly. That hasn't changed, but I think H2H, there's a few guys who'd trouble him. Haven't seen his late career losses, but I'd always pick Moon to beat him as well as 50/50s with Khaosai and prime Jiro. But one things for sure, this guy is fucking brilliant. What a technician.

Laciar was a truly exceptional flyweight. One of the all-timers for sure. I can see him either beating, or being troublesome for so many ATGs. The only fighters I think I'd make a decent favourite over him are Harada, Borkhorsor and Wolgast. He has a very live chance of beating everyone else, and he has a chance vs those three as well - just not a very big one IMO. I so wish footage of the Betulio fight emerges.

 

The first time I saw this fight I had Lampkin ahead, and that was watching it live on CBS. I scored it out now and here is what I saw.

Roberto Duran v Ray Lampkin

Round 1: 10-9 Duran
Round 2: 10-9 Lampkin
Round 3: 10-9 Lampkin
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 Duran (2 minute round??)
Round 6: 10-9 Duran
Round 7: 10-9 Lampkin
Round 8: 10-9 Lampkin
Round 9: 10-9 Duran
Round 10: 10-10 Even
Round 11: 10-9 Duran
Round 12: 10-9 Lampkin
Round 13: 10-10 Even
Round 14: Duran KOs Lampkin

Total through 13 completed rounds: 125-125 Even (actual scores: 129-124, 129-124 and 128-122 all for Duran)

We all remember the dark quote from Duran after the bout. "If I was in shape I would have sent him.....", we know the rest. But what is key was always that part of not being in shape. And it is evident from the 6th round on. Duran is exhausted and never got a second wind. In fact he showed more energy post fight jumping around the ring in joy. As well he should because Lampkin took this seriously. Duran had the heavier hands but Lampkin had the faster, the sharper and he was as scrappy as hell. Even the KO can't really be held up as anything amazing other than the effect because Lampkin walked onto it and hitting his head on the canvas didn't help matters. Rounds 11, 12 and 13 became really sloppy with both exhausted by this time. It should be noted that the officials scoring this bout were all from Panama and their scores do not reflect what actually took place in that ring. I had it all square after 13. A quick check of the scorecard thread on the ESB Forum shows 3 more posters scored this. Natonic and Philly had it 125-123 and 124-123 respectively for Duran while GPater had it 125-122 for Lampkin. These are far more realistic scores.

 

I really love what RD did for Mitchell-McDonnell.

Its hard to provide round-by-round scorecards each day - but an overall, high-level analysis like RD gave is doable, and his breakdown was superb.

 

Would you make Laciar a favorite over Canto?

 

I was actually thinking that match up over as I wrote that last bit, and my first impression is no. But when I watch the first fight (to my knowledge, the vid I was watching was the first fight but I got to the eleventh round to find out it wasn't), I'll have a better idea. My immediate instinct is that Canto - if he fights smart, not brave - doesn't have much trouble with Laciar's style, like he didn't with Betulio's.

 

I fully concur. I think Canto UDs Laciar, but drops a UD to Roman.

 

Erik Morales v Jesus Chavez

Excellent fight in which Chavez managed to injure his shoulder early but kept going with one hand and actually did better as the fight wore on. Morales had a clear edge in power and put Chavez down hard in the second but Chavez showed a ton of heart to keep going and stifle Morales' work. Morales seemed to go off the boil a bit from round 8 but let it all hang out in a barnstorming finale.

1 9-10 (Morales rocked by Chavez)
2 10-7 (Chavez down twice and hurt)
3 10-9
4 10-9
5 10-10
6 10-9
7 10-9
8 9-10
9 9-10 (close)
10 9-10
11 10-9
12 10-9 (excellent action)

Morales 116-111 Chavez

 

He has the physicality but not the style IMO. I would favour Canto. Not easy by any means, though.

 

Thank you kindly!

 

Checked out 2 Nigel Benn fights today. Was in the mood to see some action. Here we go.

Nigel Benn v Doug DeWitt

Round 1: 10-9 Benn
Round 2: 10-8 DeWitt (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-8 Benn (scores a knockdown)
Round 4: 10-9 Benn
Round 5: 10-9 Benn
Round 6: 10-9 Benn
Round 7: 10-9 Benn
Round 8: Benn stops DeWitt

Total through 7 completed rounds: 68-63 Benn (actual scores: 70-63, 67-64 and 66-64 all for Benn)

DeWitt's habit of hanging his head straight up and leaning back slightly was as inviting a target as I have ever seen. His corner should have just drawn a target at the base of his chin for Benn. I thought I was being a bit conservative in my score but 2 of the official scores were ridiculously close. Benn absolutely hammered DeWitt throughout.

Nigel Benn v Robbie Sims (British scoring of 10-9 1/2)

Round 1: 10-9 1/2 Benn
Round 2: 10-9 1/2 Benn
Round 3: 10-9 1/2 Sims
Round 4: 10-10 Even
Round 5: 10-9 1/2 Benn
Round 6: 10-9 1/2 Benn
Round 7: Benn drops Sims twice and the fight is stopped

Total through 6 completed rounds: 59 1/2 - 58 for Benn (no official score announced)

Sims was as Jim Watt stated, "a reeeeeal quality opooooonent." (I totally love his commentary). I was giving Sims the 7th round until Benn dropped the bomb on him late in the round. The rounds were close and was a good competitive match. Man, it's not until these fighters careers were over that you look back and appreciate the power of Benn and the skill of Sims and what they brought to the table in a very competitive era.

 

DeWitt was Benn's best performance imo.

 

Jorge Lujan vs Alberto Davilla

Lujan-Davilla
9 : 10*
9 : 10
10 : 9
10 : 8
10 : 9* (48/46)
10 : 9
9 : 10
9 : 10
9 : 10
10 : 9 (95/94)
9 : 10*
10 : 9*
9 : 10*
10 : 9
9 : 10* (142/142)

Couldn't be bothered writing a big post. Here's how I had it, scorewise. Very tough. When I upload it - which will likely be tomorrow or boxing day. If not, New Year - I want to see others' scores.