The other side of SICKO....

I like how they say Canada has longer wait times while glossing over Canada also has higher number of insured and ranked higher in care. I also like how they gloss over pre-existing conditions to deny coverage is laughable, and disgusting. A "substantial drop " still almost a trillion dollars ::

Saving 1200$ a year? Oh joy, what is the final dollar amount after the savings :nono:

45 million instead of 50 million? Argue semantics much :doh:

This dufus is in the bag :warning:


'Sicko' Film Gives Accused Little Say
By KEVIN FREKING and LINDA A. JOHNSON (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
June 30, 2007 12:03 PM EDT
WASHINGTON - In many respects, Michael Moore's new movie, "Sicko," is like a trial for those who oversee health care in the United States.
The industry - doctors, drug makers, hospitals, insurers - is charged with greed and putting personal interests above patients'. Moore heard from thousands of people who had maddening and heartbreaking brushes with this system.
As chief prosecutor, Moore lets them do most of the talking and weaves their stories into the film with wit, compassion and humor.
<SCRIPT>document.write('<iframe style="float:right;margin-left:5px" src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/news.earthlink.dart/news_np300x250;sz=300x250;ptile=5;ord='+rand+'?" width="300" height="250" frameborder="no" border="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no">http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/news.earthlink.dart/news_np300x250;abr=!ie;sz=300x250;ptile=5;ord='+rand+'?</iframe>');</SCRIPT>But one aspect missing from the film is the defense. Do not expect to hear anyone speak well of the care they received in the U.S. On the other hand, patients and doctors from Canada, Britain, France and Cuba marvel at their health care.
Moore tells viewers there are about 50 million people in the U.S. without health insurance.
Just this past week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated there are about 43.6 million uninsured people in the country. In March, the Census Bureau put the number at 44.8 million.
Moore noted that about 18,000 people die each year as a result of the lack of health insurance. That number comes for a January 2004 report from the Institute of Medicine. The report said the uninsured do not get the care they need and are more likely to die prematurely.
Taking on the pharmaceutical industry, Moore says it spent millions of dollars lobbying Congress for a Medicare prescription drug benefit.
"Of course it was really a bill to hand over $800 billion of our tax dollars to the drug and health insurance industry," he said.
Moore is citing the projected cost for the Medicare drug benefit's first 10 years.
Last year, however, Medicare officials told The Associated Press that the projected cost of the benefit through 2015 stood at about $729 billion, a substantial drop compared with original estimates.
Moore also noted the some of the elderly in the drug program could end up paying more for their prescriptions than they did before. That is true. But the vast majority do save because of the tens of billions of dollars in annual government subsidies to help cover the cost of their medicine. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services says people save about $1,200 a year on average by participating in the program, called Medicare Part D.
At one point, Moore notes where the U.S. ranks in terms of health care around the world.
"The United States slipped to No. 37 in health care around the world, just slightly ahead of Slovenia," he said.
That ranking is based on a 2000 report from the World Health Organization that some health analysts viewed as misleading.
Moore does not say that one of the countries he highlighted, Cuba, is ranked 39th, below the U.S. Among the others, France is ranked No. 1, the United Kingdom ranked 18th and Canada ranked 30th. He does not give those rankings, either.
The report, based on 1997 data, measured not just the quality of care provided, but how well the countries prevented illness and how fairly the poor, minorities and other special populations are treated.
Moore's film includes security video showing a disoriented elderly woman in a hospital gown and slippers wandering in the gutter of a busy Los Angeles street. Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center near Los Angeles had discharged her and sent her off in a cab. Eventually, a staff member from the Union Rescue Mission in the city's crime-ridden Skid Row area comes out to help the woman.
The March 2006 incident was widely documented. This May, Kaiser Permanente, the country's biggest health maintenance organization, reached a settlement with Los Angeles prosecutors requiring Kaiser to make changes to end the dumping of homeless patients on streets.
Los Angeles authorities are investigating allegations that a dozen area hospitals have dumped more than 50 homeless patients downtown. On Wednesday, prosecutors filed civil complaints against two other hospitals and a transportation service accusing them of dumping homeless patients in Skid Row.
In the movie, Moore correctly states that the chief executives of health insurance companies make millions of dollars a year.
Among the insurers mentioned are Humana Inc., where chief executive Michael McCallister received about $5.9 million in salary and other compensation in 2006, and Aetna Inc., where chief executive Ronald Williams last year received salary and other compensation totaling about $30.9 million. Those figures were determined by an AP analysis of company filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Huge executive salaries are the norm in all of corporate America. An AP analysis of 386 Fortune 500 companies' executive compensation reports showed that half the CEOs made more than $8.3 million last year.
In the film, an insurance company call center employee says her company has a list of pre-existing conditions that would "wrap around this house." The conditions, including diabetes, heart disease and cancer, make applicants ineligible for coverage. Numerous disorders then scrolls up a black screen in yellow letters - think of the "Star Wars" movie introductions.
Karen Ignagni, president and chief executive of the trade group America's Health Insurance Plans, said Moore does not identify the plan involved but that it is not a typical one. She said about 17 million people in the U.S. are insured under individual plans and an additional 200 million under group plans.
"If that list were true, none of those people would be getting health insurance," Ignagni said.
Ignagni said decisions about which treatments are covered by a plan are made by the sponsor, such as an employer, not by the insurer.
Moore also takes on the notion that universal health coverage leads to longer waits in hospital emergency rooms and to see doctors.
He visited a crowded emergency room in Canada and asked patients how long they had to wait. One said 20 minutes; a second said 45 minutes. "I got help right away," a third said.
Yet a recent report from the Commonwealth Fund indicates that wait times in the U.S. are clearly shorter than they are in Canada.
In all areas measured, the U.S. fared better than Canada. For example, 24 percent of Canadians waited four hours or longer to be seen in the emergency room versus 12 percent in the U.S. The difference was more acute when it came time to see a specialist. Fifty-seven percent of Canadians waited four weeks or longer to see a specialist versus 23 percent in the U.S.
The Commonwealth Fund also monitored wait times in Britain, which has universal health care. The wait times for emergency room care were comparable to those in the U.S.. There was a big difference when it came time to see a specialist - 60 percent in Britain waited four weeks or longer.
The film concludes with a trip to Cuba where Moore seeks care for a group of workers who have experienced health problems after responding to 2001 terrorist attacks. They are greeted with open arms at a hospital in Havana and given what appears to be top-notch care that they could not get in the U.S. The question left for viewers to ponder is whether Cubans are given such red carpet treatment, too.

 

Canada > USA when it comes to Health Care.

 

THE FILM CREW IS WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS

More bullshit from the rightwing fucktards.

Moore has said in 3 interviews that I have heard that the cuban govt didn't want him and his crew their and it took a while to talk them into agreeing to take part in the film.


Rightwing bullshit, gotta love it.

 

"Moore does not say that cuba is ranked under the United States"

Tyler mentioned arguing semantics in the first post of this thread, yet watch him argue semantics as I mention that THE LIST IS SHOWN IN THE DOCUMENTARY AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE CUBA BELOW UNITED STATES ON THE LIST"

More bullshit from turden

 

I have no clue what you want to argue about here :dunno: Cuba is listed below the US in ranking, and? You got something you want to argue with Moore about and you want to pretend I am him :dunno:

 

The link you posted said that Moore doesn't mention that cuba is behind the U.S. in those rankings, yet the movie shows the list in a close up clearly showing cuba behind the U.S. that part of your link is a lie.

 

There are several lies and misinformation in that link.....
AND?

OK, so where is my bullshit......oh that's right, you made that up

 

So you post something supposedly exposing the lies of Sicko, yet you agree that what you posted is bullshit.

::

 

Funny thread...


I and I is chasing his tail, but he's not sure why..

 

::

 

Funny thread

Turdens post says that in SICKO Moore doesn't say that cuba ranks below the U.S. This is a lie that I already exposed, in the movie, the camera does a close up of the list clearly showing Cuba being behind the U.S. Turden comes with his bullshit post saying that moores documentary doesn't say that cuba ranks behind the U.S.

Turden also says in his post that Moore was welcomed with open arms to CUBA, when I have heard 3 interviews with moore and he clearly explains that the cuban govt at first didn't want him to do that piece in cuba for fear of starting a confrontation with the U.S. Turdens bullshit post about moore being welcomed with open arms to cuba is BULLSHIT.

I have exposed 2 parts of his post as bullshit, but let me guess, I am being "schooled" ::

 

Who hasn't seen that trailor for the movie :dunno:

You school yourself imbecile, how you confuse my OBVIOUS comments on which side of the issue I am on is beyond me ::

 

IDIOT
'Sicko' Film Gives Accused Little Say
By KEVIN FREKING and LINDA A. JOHNSON (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
June 30, 2007 12:03 PM EDT

 

I think he finally got tired ::

 

HaHa! You don't read too well do you. Even when Durden agrees with you, you find some way to spin it into some sort of right-wing conspiracy. ::

 

:: Watch me....

 

So turden posts things that aren't true about the documentary SICKO and he admits that what he posted isn't true, but according to rightwing logic, the joke is on me. :notallthere:

 

That about sums it up :bears:Only it doesn't involve rightwing anything, just logic.

 

So the joke is on me when you post bullshit?

::

 

The joke is on you when you say how I will argue semantics when I CLEARLY was critisizing the posted article and your prediction never came to fruition, the joke goes deeper when you come out and say US is ranked higher than your favorite communist country

 

How is it a joke on me???

When the U.S. the richest county in the world is only 2 countries ahead of Cuba?

 

Godfather beleives Hussein had ties to al-queda

 

Apparently you have forgot about Cuba, maybe dsimon can refresh your memory :laughing:

 

Hall of shame candidate? ::

 

The subject is you guys somehow saying the joke is on me when the U.S. is only 2 countries ahead of Cuba.

 

.....and you argued before it was better. Have you ever been right about anything, even on accident? ::