Might depend on the division? I think though Hopkins would take it at 175 bs and anywhere below. Toney is better at close, but when needed Hopkins could use good footwork to outbox guys and that I think is the factor Toney can not compensate: he does not have the reach, speed nor workrate advantage to overcome it. With Toney's counters and good defense even less punches would be landed than in normal Hopkins bouts, but I think he edges out the decision in interesting if stinky fight.
it would be a technical fight in the close to mid-distance and since hopkins has never proven to be technically better than someone like McCallum, it'd be Toney to win a UD
I dont see Toney winning this ever. Toney looked great when guys came right at him trying to slug, but thats it. Hopkins has too many dimensions to his game and he has the vastly better legs here. I cant see Hopkins losing to a guy who stands still the whole fight looking to shoulder-roll and counter. Hopkins is just a better, more versatile fighter
For all we know, Jirov could've beaten Toney had it not been for Tommy Brooks telling him to be in his chest the whole night. He got countered to death and played right into Toney's hands. Brooks is an idiot.
I don't think you can put it all on Brooks. Jirov is a pressure fighter. That style of course plays into Toney's hands, but it's not as if they could change Vassily for one fight. I also think they wanted to set a very high pace because of Toney's problems making weight. Although Toney won, let's not revise history here. It was a very tough fight for both guys and not by any stretch of the imagination an "easy" one for James.
I think the problem for Jirov was that he tried to hit Toney in the face with his right hand,.. I mean,.. when somebody turns and folds for the entire fight, and the rules are never enforced,.. unless he concerntrates on smashing the spine, kidney or brain stem,.. he effectively has only one hand to land anything legal,.. his left, and there's still not much he could've done from a southpaw stance, stretching his arm around "the corner" trying to 'puff' and 'touch' Toney's face in vain,... it was actually this fight,...and not one of Fraud's fights that started me thinking along the lines that this "shoulder roll" shit is an exploitation of the rules,...seeing Jirov awkwardly rubbing his cup up Toney's arse didn't look right, not just the aesthetics.
At 160, I'd go with Hopkins by competitive decision. Toney is best when his opponent comes at him so he can counter. Hopkins is very smart, so he's going to not give Toney that sort of fight and rather use movement and box. Toney was quicker on his feet in his younger days so he'd hold his own in that area, but still I don't think it'd be enough to win. Toney was rather inconsistent at 160, although he looked brilliant in the first McCallum fight (which I thought he won, and thought he lost the rematch).
Hopkins has never shown, against decent competition, to be this great virtuoso you guys are making him out to be :dunno: using movement to outbox Tito and Pavlik doesn't equate to doing the same against Toney anyway, Hopkins wouldnt use movement against Toney, because Toney wasnt a big puncher....this would be a fight on the inside, no doubt
I agree that Hopkins is hugely over-rated. But I wouldn't say Toney wasn't a big puncher. He was no Pavlik, but his timed counter-shots were nothing to play around with. And let's not forget his one punch knock-out of Nunn. Toney's fought top competition most of his career. If he'd fought the guys Hopkins did at 160, we'd think he was a knock-out artist. Toney has about 2 to 3 times the talent that Hopkins does. If he had half the work ethic that Hopkins does, he'd beat him easily over and over again.
You guys are infuriating. The fact of the matter is Hopkins never beat anyone near the talent of James Toney, ever. It's is funny with Hopkins. Nearly everyone is unreasonable about him. We are talking about a guy who lost to Jermain Taylor twice. A guy who fought on even terms with Oscar De la hoya until "the dive". Toney might lose at 160 because he wasn't meant to fight there. I give hopkins a 20% chance at 160. I give Hopkins 15% at 168, 10% at 175 and 2.5%at any other weight.
