I'm really asking the big questions here. Meaning of life? What comes after death? Fuck that, who was P4P top five in the mid-50s? Keep in mind at this point, Robinson has just come off a three month lay off and would lose to Ralph Jones and then, arguably loses to Johnny Lombardo and struggles massively with Rocky Castellani. He is redeemed by his win over Olson, but personally, I don't think he's good enough at this particular point to make the list. For reference, the champions at the main weights are: Heavyweight: Rocky Marciano Light-Heavy: Archie Moore Middleweight: Olson/SRR Welterweight: Saxton/DeMarco/Basilio Lightweight: Wallace Bud Smith Featherweight: Sandy Saddler Bantamweight: Vacant (?) Flyweight: Pascual Perez
If a 185lb guy was 48-0 and was THE HW champ today, he'd be the pfp #1, 2 and 3. So i cant rule Marciano out. Bit i thought Moore won the title after he lost to Marciano??
Yeah, but you have to remember, 185lbs was fairly standard for a heavyweight then. It's not like Marciano was tiny for weight like he would be today. He was just a little bit smaller than some guys. And nah, Moore had been champ for years at that point.
I've edited the OP to be more accurate. DeMarco was welter champ coming into the year, and Carter lost to Bud Smith and actually only won one fight that year.
Marciano had just beaten Moore and was 49-0, he's a lock. Moore is also a lock, just look at how good he was in that Marciano fight. The next few, are a little tougher. Perez in 1955 slaughtered the former champ, Shirai and went into '56 28-0-1. I think the way he looks on film and the offensive dynamo he was in enough to possibly get on the list. I'd definitely rank him over Basilio, Robinson and Carter at that point. Sandy was on the slide, but he was still featherweight champion and would go onto beat Elorde - however, I don't think that counts. He went 4-2 in 1955, I'm happy to leave him off TBH. Basilio won the title, beat one of the best contenders ever and then defended the title against the second best welter in world. Given what he looks like on film, I think it's pretty clear he's top five. Wallace went 2-0-1 in '55, and won the lightweight title and beat Carter again in the rematch. I think that's probably better form than Robinson was in. So my list would be: #05. Wallace Bud Smith #04. Carmen Basilio #03. Pascual Perez #02. Archie Moore #01. Rocky Marciano
It really sucks we have basically no footage of Perez to go off... not in a win, anyway. One of the sport's mysteries.
Yeah, although I think that you can see flashes of how good he must've been in the Pone fights. Similar to Leonard, vs McLarnin. I reading a quote about him which I think is a perfect description. "An offense virtuoso, and a dynamic bulldog".
Fuck, I hope Greg doesn't find out. But Macias was KOed by Billy Peacock that year, and the guy he beat for the title was pretty weak IMO. I don't think he's eligible TBH.
If we're talking about P4P, I think Moore has a great case for being #1. Over the past 2 years, he'd beaten: -Maxim and Harold Johnson (the two top LHW contenders, both HoFers) -Olson (top MW at the time, also HoFer) Nino Valdes (#1 HW contender) In other words, he beat top fighters across THREE major weight classes. IMO, his loss to Marciano can be excused on the grounds that Rocky was the best HW in the world and Moore dropped back down in weight afterward.
