Training tips for upper back?

Discussion in 'Training & Conditioning' started by Ugotabe Kidding, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    I got some good tips for training my stomach from you guys so I'll try again.

    My workout has gone well, I have gotten more muscle and lost the little fat I had. However when I stand up, my shoulders drop a little forward and I hold my head down (not knowingly) which makes my stance look like an old man (I hope you understand what I mean). When I remember it, I can hold my head high and pull my shoulders back, but it doesn't come naturally to me. How should I train to prevent this from happening. I'd assume it could be about my upper back, but if you know better please let me know
     
  2. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    I've been dealing with a slight tendency to do that, recently too.

    The problem isn't usually the curve of the upper spine (thoratic) as much as the lower spine (lumbar). The lower back is the base that has knock on effects right up the spine - the hips and pelvis are where the big tussles between major muscle groups that cause the imbalances happen. They shows up in either a 'posterior' or 'anterior' pelvic tilt, corresponding to a flattening or over extending of the lower back, which the upper back then has to compensate for.

    First thing to try, which worked for me, is learning how to properly engage your lower back muscles. Stand up, put your hand on your lower back and try to tense them hard - it might take a couple of tries to get the feeling of how to do it right, without leaning back or forward, if they're really dormant. If a bookie were offering odds, I'd put money on that fixing the whole postural issue instantly. In which case you know what to work on - strengthening your lower back (dimmel deadlifts, good mornings, back extensions, glute ham raises, deadlifts with PERFECT form - any of them will do it). On top of this, you should start stretching your hip flexors, since it's the hip flexors winning the battle against your lower back muscles which is pulling your pelvis forward.

    Rarer is posterior pelvic tilt caused by an imbalance between your abs and your glutes/hamstrings. Try the lower back thingy first though, that's the cause for 90%.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  3. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Obviously, training the lats and traps & stretching the chest & shoulders will only help, too, but sorting the lumbar area is usually the major issue.
     
  4. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try. I have done some back extensions on a machine. I am not sure if I can make deadlifts though, I have a problem with my knee and I have also read stories about what they can do to your back if your technique is not correct so I think I needed a coach to help me with them.

    Also, I have to look up from dictionary for hip flexors and glute ham raises
     
  5. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    There are good vids on youtube showing you how to deadlift right. Really it's as simple as you like, you can learn yourself....especially if you have a camera phone and can record your sets to make sure your back is staying flat/in extension. That's the only issue to worry with (and dangers are greatly exaggerated).

    They shouldn't bother your knee, but if they do you can still do stiff leg, dimmel or romanian deadlifts which will all work your lower back really well.

    If your knee really bothers you, doing light good mornings (ie just starting with an empty bar and really focusing on keeping your lower back in extension and adding weight slowly) would work great.
     
  6. NeighborMike

    NeighborMike Senior Member

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    Pull ups, cant stress this enough.

    If youre a sav in the gym do weighted pull ups
     
  7. LOK

    LOK I'll eat your asshole alive

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    be conscious of your pelvis

    when the pelvis is level, posture is good. A lot of times people's pelvis tilts so the front is lower than the back. In chinese medicine they'd say you are "spilling your chi"

    by engaging the lower stomach muscles and keeping the pelvic tilt flat, you also stretch and lengthen the lower back muscles
     
  8. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    How many pull ups should I be able to do? Without extra weights I can do about 3x10 with pretty short breaks. Should I add weight and do shorter series or perhaps use a machine and do more repeats with less weight?
     
  9. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    3x10 is good. I personally alternate between doing 5 weighted sets of 3, pushing the weight up each time and continuing to do bodyweight chins. Good mix of rep ranges from work out to work out - 5x3 gets you strong really quickly, higher reps is a nice break and keeps you practiced in just doing BW chins.

    50lbx3 is a pretty strong intermediary goal on weighted chin ups. Might take 4-6 months.

    (But posturally the weak muscles (either back or abs) and tight upper legs (either hams or hip flexors) are where the problems are, homeboy:Thumbs:).
     
  10. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    SHRUGS!
     
  11. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    To clarify..SHRUGS are similar to shrugging your shoulders, except you do it with dumbells in each hand. Start with at least 50lb dumbbells (for a guy your size) and then increase as you can. Helps the posture and also creates the upper back muscles that the ladies love.

    Editted to add: keep you shoulders back and chest forward when performing the shrugs to greatest effect.
     
  12. NeighborMike

    NeighborMike Senior Member

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    this is a winner here
     
  13. ArturoGatti

    ArturoGatti WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    i want to start doing squats with weights as i hear that is an effective exercise for thhe entire body. What weights should I start out with?
     
  14. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Empty bar until you master your form. Meaning

    1) Fix your eyes on a spot straight ahead or slightly down and keep them focused on that.
    1) ass back first (rather than knees forward first)
    2) chest up, lower back TIGHT (upper back tight too)
    3) push the knees out as far as possible as you descend
    4) go below parallel (meaning the crease of your hip goes below the top of your knee, as somebody looks side on to your squat)
    5) as you rebound out the bottom, rather than pushing into the floor with your feet like a leg press, rather, continue to push your ass back and up and concentrating on keeping your lower back tight enough so that your back angle doesn't change (ie that you don't start leaning forward on the ascent). This engages your hamstrings and glutes, and takes the strain off your knees & distributes it to your hips.

    Once that's all perfect, add weight in 20lb increments until the bar speed slows slightly. It should still be an EASY set, you should just start feeling gravity fighting you a touch. Start there with 3 sets of 5 at that weight then add weight to the bar every time you go back to the gym, without sacrificing form (if forms breaking down you aren't getting stronger, you're basically just cheating yourself. Done it many times myself)

    For an idea - for most people somewhere around 130lb is a good starting weight. You wanna start light and build momentum.

    This is a good example of what a squat should look like: :cheers:

    <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-sqb6njA8gE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2011
  15. ArturoGatti

    ArturoGatti WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    you're an encyclopedia hut.
     
  16. BOSS

    BOSS TBD

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    225x8
     
  17. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    Yo, out of curiosity, are your feet slightly (or significantly) everted? Ie do they naturally turn outwards slightly when you stand naturally?
     
  18. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    :lol:223.5, I say.
     
  19. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Yes, they turn outwards. Also, I have some problem with my hips so that I can't turn my legs to either direction very much
     
  20. LOK

    LOK I'll eat your asshole alive

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    Your hips don't lie?
     
  21. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Egoscue-Met...4306/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1301141647&sr=8-3

    There's a program of prehab/rehab exercises to fix that postural problem in there. :Thumbs: Basically it's caused by overly strong hip flexors, but that has knock on effects all over the shop in terms of other muscles abdicating the work their supposed to do in walking etc to the hip flexors over time, which kinda misaligns the structure & gait a bit. So you do activation work to wake them up.

    Im doing them atm
     

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