Anybody Check this Out Last Night????:dunno: SPORTCENTER's been Highlighting it for the Last Week & it PREMIERED Last Night on ESPNClassic... A GOOD Behind the Scenes Look @ "Boom Boom" Mancini, 1 of REED's FAVORITE Fighters, from his Childhood...It was Very Similar to ESPN's "Sportscentury" Documentary Series... REED's Only Complaint was how the Documentary DWELLED on the Tragic Death of Duk Koo Kim a Bit Much...They Make it Seem as if THAT Fight "Defined" Ray Mancini, which REED Disagrees w/... They Sorta GLOSSED OVER "Boom Boom's" Impact on 80's Boxing, his Popularity, his Title Reign & the Touching Storyline w/his Father, yet they HARPED on the Duk Koo Kim Fight Over & Over... It's 1 Thing to Pay RESPECT to Kim, but "Boom Boom" Mancini was about MORE than just that 1 TRAGIC Fight... Thoughts & Opinions on the Documentary?? REED
I didnt see the show but i saw the long promos while over in the USA last week...I remember thinking hang on there when they talked about no other fight defining mancini than the Kim fight...it makes for a good story or an easy one to tell, but yeah, they didnt quite do mancini's career justice with that emphasis
It's to be expected, since yesterday was the 25th "anniversary" of the fight. TWIN, all of the things you point out in your post is the exact reason why I didn't care for the documentary, really at all to be honest. Some will argue that boxing fans should be appreciative of ANY mainstream coverage, but the problem is, when the sport is examined, it's always in this manner. You never get the sense that the people behind the camera, or even financing the project, are fully aware of the subject they're tackling, instead forcing their own agenda down your throat. I watch it and think, if a documentary wasn't already done on Jesus Chavez, the story would instead become his fight with Leavander Johnson. Or that a documentary on the Ruelas brothers wouldn't go in to detal about coming to USA from Mexico, barefoot and homeless, but instead focus on Gabe's fight w/ Jimmy Garcia and Raffy's inability to stay off of the canvas against Oscar. Anyway, long story short, didn't care for the documentary. Some of it was interesting, but as a boxing fan I felt insulted by it more than anything else.
If U were Ever a FAN of Boom Boom Mancini, it's Definitely WORTH Checking Out @ Least 1nce, WHISKEY... REED LEARNED that Boom Boom had an Older Brother that Passed Away, Prior to his Pro Career Blowing Up...REED Also Learned that Mancini LOST Endorsements After the Kim Fight...Boom Boom's DAUGHTER Ain't Bad Looking, Either... They OVERdid the Kim Coverage, but the Documentary was Pretty Good Overall...REED would Give it a B or B -... REED
Well if i was sitting around and it was on TV it's not like i would change the channel but it doesn't sound like something i'd search out either. The sub title alone irks me. "Triumph and TRAGEDY" :doh: Emile Griffith had his own documentary. Like Jake pointed out, i wonder how long it will be before there's one on Jesus Chavez.
I watched Mancini then but his career defining moment was the Kim fight. I can't see how anyone could disagree with that. :dunno: Boxing on network TV wasn't the same, not to mention his death lead to cutting fights from 15 to 12 rounds. How could you NOT play up the impact of the fight? Plus, it lead to some of Ray's deepest depression and hardest periods of his life.
We're OVERDUE on a Happy, UPLIFTING Boxing Documentary, Huh???:: Thank GOD for "When we were Kings", but that's Got to B Well OVER 10 Years Old...Ali Makes REED Laugh OUT LOUD, Everytime he Watches it... REED Thinks there Already HAS been a Documentary Made about Jesus Chavez...Not Sure of the Title, but REED Knows he was Involved in a Robbery @ 1 Time & was Deported or Something... But Not Doubt, if they could RE-Make it, they'd DWELL on the Levander Johnson Fight... EVERY Boxing Story DOESN'T Have to B SAD... REED
disagREED... When REED THINKS BACK on Ray Mancini, the FIRST thing that Comes to Mind is the Father-Son Angle...THAT is what MADE Mancini a "Mainstream" 80's Fighter... So on that Note, REED Thinks the Art Frias Fight "Defines" Mancini MUCH MORE than the Kim Fight...As a Kid, REED was GENUNIELY CRUSHED when Arguello Whipped Manicini's Ass...REED Didn't Know the POLITICS of Boxing & SERIOUSLY Wondered if Mancini would EVER Get Another CHANCE to Fulfill his PROMISE to his Old Man... So when the Frias Fight Came About, REED was EXCITED Cause he KNEW Boom Boom could BEAT Frias...& When he Actually DID, that was a Great, GREAT Moment... Everything Else was GRAVY After that...Boom Boom FULFILLED his Promise to his Old Man...The "Story" Could've Ended RIGHT THERE for REED... REED
there was a documentary (and book) on Jesus Chavez, whiskey. I said it in my original post, you must've misread. What I said was, if there wasn't already one done on him, that the focus would be removed from his legal issues and deportation, and instead center around the Leavander Johnson fight.
I guess the Kim fight resonates with me because I'm pretty sure I watched it live with my pops...we always watched fights on CBS and Wide World of Sports. Mancini certainly had the appeal to the general public because of the father-son crap, the whole Italian thing, plus the Rocky movies were big shortly before that. I've always thought of him as a better skilled Gatti. Truth be told, I never cared either way about him. I liked Hagler, Hearns and Leonard (at that time).
"Another" ???:dunno: Who's the Other(s)??? U REALLY Need to Get OVER your Beef w/REED, Dude...When REED Roots for Brothers, he's "Racist"...When REED Roots for White Cats, it's to MASK his "Racism" ... REED has even Stated SEVERAL Times that he WAS a Golota Fan & IS a Fan of Wlad...So it's NOT like REED ONLY Likes White AMERICANs... Now, REED points Out Another WHITE Fighter he was a Fan Of in his YOUTH & U STILL Got a Problem w/It???... WHATthefuckEVER... REED
The Mancini-Kim fight is what made me a boxing fan. I was 10 years old, and not really into boxing at all, but for some reason, I watched that fight, and was just amazed by the brutality of it, and from that moment, I was hooked. I guess it's kind of dark in a way, but that's the fight that made me a fan. TFK
I thought the documentary was fine. The "tragedy" part wasn't just about Kim. The tragedies included his father not getting to fight for the title, his hometown collapsing when the mills closed, his brother (who was considered a better fighter than him) getting killed, losing to Arguello and then the Kim fight. That was all balanced out with him sitting the basement reading all his dad's old clippings, deciding to become a fighter, getting picked up by the networks, his tough performance with Arguello, winning the title against Frias, celebrating with his parents, becoming a big star, and coming to grips with it all after the Kim fight -- being invited as a guest to the movie on Kim's life (and how warmly he was greeted) and how he had showed his daughter the film of the fight and she absolved him. I thought it was very balanced. An equal amount of "triumph and tragedy." The Mancini-Kim fight was the focus of the beginning and end because it was the 25th anniversary of the fight. And, truthfully, that fight was a milestone for boxing on network television. Three days before Mancini-Kim, Sugar Ray Leonard retired because of his detached retina. Two weeks after Mancini-Kim, ABC televised Holmes-Tex Cobb. Howard Cosell ripped the fight to shreds during it, refused to provide commentary for any more boxing matches after that night (and he was the voice of boxing in the late 60s, all of the 1970s and early 80s), and Cosell called for boxing to be banned because of the Mancini-Kim and Holmes-Cobb fights. And a week or two after Holmes-Cobb, the first Weaver-Dokes fight took place, and the ref stopped it way too early because he said he didn't want another "Kim on his hands." That's when the networks started to walk away. There weren't a whole lot of big-time boxing matches shown live on network television after that. By and large, the big fights started appearing on closed circuit, HBO and even ESPN beginning in 1983. (Holmes-Spoon, Dokes-Weaver II, Duran-Moore and Duran-Hagler, Pryor-Arguello II were all on closed circuit -- Spinks-Qawi, Hagler-Sibson, Coetzee-Dokes were on HBO -- Curry-Hwang for Leonard's vacant title was live on ESPN and I think Mancini's first defense after Kim against Orlando Romero was show live on the MSG Network). A year or two earlier, all those fights would've been on ABC or CBS. If you saw a big fight on network television from that point on (outside of an awful Holmes fight against a no-hoper like Marvis Frazier), 90 percent of the time it was tape delayed a week or two. November 1982 was a pretty significant moment in the sport's history on network television, and Mancini-Kim was a big part of it because Boom Boom Mancini was a household name and millions of people watched it happen live. Chavez-Johnson and Ruelas-Garcia were blips on the screen in comparison -- because they were virtual unknowns and the matches were buried on undercards of PPVs that very few people saw. Hell, Cleveland Denny was beaten to death on the undercard of Duran-Leonard I, and nobody gave it much thought because if you weren't there you probably didn't see it. Like Griffith-Paret III, Mancini-Kim was different.
The only disappointment for me was that they glossed over Camacho-Mancini. Ray came back from a Leonard-like layoff and came very close to an upset that night. That was a 'personal' triumph angle they could have really looked at. They made it sound like he came back twice and got wasted. Totally not the case. haugen was ugly, but Mancini-Camacho was quite impressive all things considered.
I have the Ring Magazine that re-ran the Duk Koo Kim article, it was called "Anatomy of a Death"....I think the article was pretty bitter in a lot of ways, and seemed to be quite slanted in the Rings Favour.
