It Means You PREFER the Other Guy to LEAD w/Punches, Affording You the Opportunity to COUNTER his Attack w/Punches of Your Own...It's a BRAVER Way of Fighting than Given Credit for...
I think I agree. I think its quite different to the classic 'boxer' that often gets labeled with the term. I'm not sure JMM or Ali are counter punchers for instance. The term kinda confuses me tbh
Maybe JMM and Ali aren't "pure" counterpunchers ala somebody like James Toney but I think REED's description of somebody that always prefers their opponent to lead is correct.
Yeah, Ali was More of a Guy that Engaged On HIS OWN Terms, than a Pure Counterpuncher...Pernell Whittaker was a PURE Counterpuncher...Roy Jones (Whose KRYPTONITE Proved to Be Fellow Counterpunchers), to a Lesser Degree...Rigondeaux's a CLASSIC Counterpuncher & his Fights Get Labeled "Boring" Because his Foes Reach a Point where they Flat Out REFUSE to LEAD, Even if they NEED a KO to Win...
Someone who is especially skilled at responding to another's lead; someone who prefers the other man to lead or does their best work in that instance Harold Johnson, James Toney, Marlon Starling, Wilfred Benitez, Jerry Quarry, Leotis Martin, Joe Brown, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, Donaire, Rigo, Tracy Patterson, Sal Sanchez to name a bunch of disparate fighters who were all largely counterpunchers I don't know that I'd necessarily agree with the contention of JMM not being a counterpuncher... Thinking back, all of his best results have come from him punching in between an opponent's attack... counterpunching
It seems like there's maybe three ideas here.... 1) the skill of actually countering leads; rolling shots with your own shots, slipping and countering. Golovkin, Donaire & Mayweather seem like the masters of this in the sport right now but each has a pretty different 'style'. 2) your own inclination to force the action or fight aggressively. This seems like something you do with your feet more than with whether you 'lead' or 'counter'. Ali moved allot but also usually punched first. Is he a counterpuncher? 3) what you PREFER the other guy to do. The trouble I see is allot of guys you might say 'prefer' a guy to be agressive actually struggle with guys who come at them TOO much, with volume. Whereas to take an extreme example Shavers probably ALWAYS preferred a guy to come at him....is he a counter puncher? :: Have I succeeded in making everyone as confused as me yet?
How are counterpunchers Roy's cryptonite. I think he dealt pretty well with the best one he's faced. Of course his career was ended with a counterpunch but still I think in his prime he could deal with any style and after it he was given one of the worst beatings by the pure opposite of a counterpuncher (Johnson). Prime Roy didn't really have cryptonite - after it he could be troubled by anybody above a certain level no matter the style.
"Kryptonite" May Be a HARSH Term, but there WAS a Degree of UNCERTAINTY, that a Prime Roy Jones Exhibited Against Counterpunchers...The 1st Bout w/Montell Griffin, the Eric Harding Fight, then Of Course, Tarver...Roy's LESS than Stellar Performances Typically Came Against Countpunchers...
What's the line from Fight Club, 'over a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero' or something. I feel that way about RJJs chances of not being KOd by James Toney or a prime Mike McCallum. I doubt he could go two fifteen rounders vs either and not be sparked. Just voyzn my ping.
NEITHER of them Possessed the Level of POWER Tarver Did, in his Left Hand...As is, Toney Landed 1 or 2 FLUSH Counters that Did NATHAN...McCallum Hurt Guys by Inflicting BODY PUNISHMENT, Simultaneously...Roy Wouldn't Be Stationary Enough for McCallum to Effectively Work the Body...Prime Roy Jones Beats 'em Both, MORE Times than Not...
Counterpuncher has been described in this thread as a style.....thats cool. Counterpunching to me means that your attack comes off the opponent's attack. In other words, if you throw a jab, I step back there is a pause and I hit you with a straight right....technically I would not consider this a counter attack. It is a separate attack initiated after your jab. if on the other hand, you throw a jab and as you pull it back, I come over your jab stepping in with that straight right, that is a counter because I am countering your attack....not defending it, not avoiding it, i am using it to set up an attack with my right. Pure counter punchers imo are guys like Toney who will often roll away and as the person is pulling back, Toney will come back with an overhand shot. Remember that boxing comes from fencing and in fencing there has always been a lot of emphasis on when an attack is initiated, ceases, and when the other attack is subsequently initiated. This was done in fencing for scoring purposes, in boxing it determines whether a movement is primarily evasive, defensive, offensive, etc.
Groanieaux Rigondull is a counter-puncher. He's also a counter-feinter, a counter-walker, a counter-looker, and a counter-waiter. He'll also have to be a waiter at a counter somewhere if he ever has to try and make a living on PPV. Little fucking Cuban wizard genius gollum that he is. :goodnews: Don't get me wrong, this guy is fucking fantastic. He'll burn a hole through your chest with his laser vision..........wait...............wait..........his........counter.......laser.........vision. Oh, he's just fucking great! :FU!:
Of course... so counterpunchers with a heavy punch then... IMO Prime Roy beats Tarver 10 out of ten. Roy could take punch before going back to light heavy. Even Ruiz tagged him once or twice and Roy took'em fine. The trip back to light heavy combined with that jaw shattering Tarver KO completely broke his chin. His speed and movement detoriated significantly with the trip to heavy and back. I couldn't believe how average Roy looked in the first Tarver fight. That would have impossible five years prior. Hell I've read pressure fighters like Glen Johnson were always his cryptonite and he would have struggled with them even in his prime. :: The Sosa fight is essentially the way a prime Roy dealt with that type of fighter although Johnson wouldn't have been stopped so quickly if at all. But Roy invited Guys with his back on the ropes to see EVERY punch coming laugh at them and then tee of or slip counters in between. He had a very effective double guard in these days. Damn ROY was something back then... :hail 1: of course I KNOW you KNOW that! ::
I think Rigondeax's just a classic boxer. Donaire's a counter puncher. But,,,,, <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/29BoqCMRBFk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Guys like Rigondeaux & Floyd are complete fighters, they can't be classified solely as counterpunchers. The best example of a classic counter-puncher that comes to mind immediately is probably Toney, JMM was as well earlier in his career.
Right exactly, this is my take! Donaire counter punches, Marquez mainly just picks his spots. To me Golovkin is more of a 'counter puncher' than Rigondeaux! (Who needs Double L still around when you have me making statements like that, right?)
Yes, Groanieaux is a complete fighter. Next time I have a casual or non-boxing fan over my house, I'll pop in two tapes. First one will be Sugar Ray Leonard. Next one will be Groanieaux. When my friend asks me why Groanieaux is only throwing 3.6 punches per round, I'll tell him it's because his opponent is soooo very afraid of him. When my friend reply's "Well, this Sugar Ray fella must be a bum, because he keeps throwing punches. His opponent must have no fear of his boxing skills at all.", I'll let him know what an intuitive sense of the sport he has and buy him a gift set of Groanieaux's fights for Christmas..................He'll be a boxing fan for life. :bears:
JM WAS a counterpuncher. Its very hard to be a bonafide counterpuncher....you have to be able to really find a place to attack. Imagine trying to counter a Mike Tyson punch, or three? Hence most guys that are able to do it, do it on occasion. Floyd does it. Some guys do it to punish someone for overextending. But the great ones catch the person in the initial attack and that is the timing and the skill.
I don't see it... He basically looks to land punches when his opponent throws one first Ken Buchanan, to me, would be more of a classic boxer... Also, guys like Larry Holmes, Ismael Laguna, Ali... Guys married heavily to good movement and a pecking jab
