Who wants to see Julio Ceasar Chavez Jr....

Fight David Lemieux?

This would be an interesting fight. This fight would certainly put the winner in the "ready to be a star" conversation.
This fight would seperate the coddled from the true contender.

What's been the deal with Canada as of late? These guys are starting to put some pretty good fighters into the pro ranks. I remember seeing David Lemieux on those boxing training skills videos when he was like 15 years old and he looked good then!

What's going to help our amateur ranks? More money? What?

Yet, we have guys like Duva heading over to China making their amateur boxers a priority. I have no idea what we can do to make amateur boxing matter again in this country.

The gold medal does not mean much anymore; so why don't we just not send an olympic team out there? They'll get robbed anyway.

 

I don't a successful amateur program, as measured by medals, is going help U.S. fighters or the sport.

To the extent it is a breeding ground for pro boxers, amateur boxing as whole should be changed to more closely mirror professional boxing.

 

(1) yes, more money never hurts

(2) When you rise to the top of a 2 billion person country, you are likely to be very good

(3) Disagree completely. A gold medal means everything which is why USA am boxing is seen as such a mess right now.

(4) The experience am fighters get in fighting worldwide competition is extremely helpful in improving fighters and helping to insure that they don't stumble as pros or in the olympics.

(5) This sentiment is based on ignorance.

 

4. Who said fighters shouldn't gain experience fighting worldwide competition?

5. Well, more to the point, pro boxing should not and should not aspire to resemble amateur boxing in any way, shape or form.

 

The thought of Lemeuix decapitating that fraud appeals to me.

 

Lemieux would KO him early....

 

We would get the "OH, NOOOOO! THAT'S WHAT WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT!!!!!" from the commentary team.

 

I like Chavez I think he's particularly skilled. But he has no physical talent or gifts at all. He's gonna get a real ass kicking at some point.

 

ummm..he said not to send an olympic team?

am boxing is based on scoring hard shots. Prior to this 2008 olympic disaster, am scoring was nowhere near as bad as it is portrayed. Now? It's bad.

 

No, it's not. In fact there's no distinction between hard, damaging shots and inconsequential shots as you know well. It's based on landing shots that it's obvious have landed - and defending in a way such a way that makes it obvious you've blocked it. :shit: Horribly, horribly insidious.

 

Who wants to see Julio Cesar Chavez take an Olympic style drugs test?

 

Yes it is. And especially yes it was from 1992 until 2007.

You don't score points in am boxing unless people on all sides of the ring score it and it is very rare for clean weak shots to score unless it's obvious they should. Hard damaging shots tend to be scored if they are clean.

Anything partially blocked tends not to get scored. Of course, in pro boxing, one of the criteria is clean punching. It just so happens that that criteria gets ignored or meshed into effective aggression so that other shots can be counted.

 

Your compulsion to defend things that blatantly suck may yet be see your surname in a medical dictionary, my man. ::

 

Actually it would be "A NO!! ESTABOMOS PREOCUPADOS POR ESTO!!!

 

::

 

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

I want to see Jr defeated, so yes, I want to see this fight.

 

Even so you gotta be rooting for Chavez Jr against that super fraud Gomez?

 

Everybody already knows Gomez aint shit. Besides, we already saw Cotto wipe his ass with Gomez, in toying fashion.

Chavez Jr needs to be exposed. The only guy at 154 who needs to be exposed more is that loud mouth faggot Vanes.

 

gomez should give chavez jr problems. lets face it, chavez jr aint anywhere close to the level of cotto

 

Thank you thanks you.

I actually called my mom to get a translation. ::

 

The Contrarian BULLSHIT ARTIST Strikes Again!!!!!....



REED:mj:

 

Watching Gomez get blasted will never get old.

 

It's Mike's equivalent to turning the light on and off 7 times.

 

The am scoring being criticized was developed to prevent blatant ripoffs due to corrupt judging (Jones jr in korea). It was successful. I think a lot of people feel that it lead to inept judging, but I don't think a fair analysis was ever done to get to that conclusion.

When the scoring fell off to 5-4, 8-3 type scores in 2008 instead of the 12-8, 15-12 type scores of before, then I started having a much bigger problem with it. But this was over 16 years after the scoring system had already been in effect.

Due to a lack of coverage and a lack of notice by many, many fans, most people didn't even know that there was 4 2-minute rds during this time, or how the scoring actually worked. Or they failed to appreciate that every freaking country bitched when their fighter lost in pretty much every single fight. They only noticed when a USA fighter lost.

and the USA nonsense bitching was because the am fighting was just pity pat stuff...which may have been the case in the 70's and 80's when sugar ray was doing his thing, but wasn't the case at all when the Cubans and Soviet Bloc fighters were beating the shit out of everyone in the 90's and 00's.

The criticism wasn't based on reality. That always pisses me off even when criticism is warranted for other reasons.

 

See the thing is - I don't care about Amateur boxing. At all. I care about professional boxing. I don't care if the occasional amateur fighter gets jobbed (do you think anybody remembers Roy Jones less favourably because of Korea) because as far as Im concerned it's just the tadpole playground to teach the guys who will become real boxers in real boxing. And the effect of the change in scoring on real boxing really appears to have been horrendous. The current amateur scoring system is one where being demonstrative is more important than being effective. Where there's no point landing a shot which isn't clearly visible to 5 people on 4 different sides at once. Where body punching only gets rewarded less than half the time in the scoring and the fights are too short for it to have any useful effect beyond that. Where two hard shots aren't as good as 3 light shots. Where there's little point spending the hundreds of hours it tales learning to turn, roll and pull from punches or deflect them subtly because if it LOOKS like the shot has landed it might as well have, regardless of it's effect on you. So you just learn to keep your hands up and jump away to avoid shots.

That's the generation of modern fighter the amateur system's bred for us on the whole, IMO. Guys with none of the subtlety that made professional boxing beautiful 30 years ago. Guy's like Amir fucking Khan.

 

I can respect all of this.

I like am boxing and consider it to be very helpful in preparing a fighter for pro boxing, but there is no doubt that it is different than fighting in the pros. But it is a conscious effort that has made it different--in pro boxing the point is to cause damage, in am boxing the point is to score points. I really don't think that results in am boxing are different from results that would have been the case in the pro ranks very often. The exception would be that the am scoring gives no weight to knockdowns or shots that obviously hurt the opponent.

I guess I just think that the sports are similar enough that excelling in am boxing usually means the fighter has the skills to excel in pro boxing. The US has just failed to adapt to teach their fighters to adapt to international am boxing and instead tries to teach them how to do the pity-pat shit from before the change in scoring.

What I mean is this--US teaches old am style to fighters who are fighting opponents with the new am style and they tend to lose. Rather than teaching fighters how to win with the new am style, they bitch about how the old am style isn't like the pros. Of course, the old am style shouldn't even be part of the discussion.

Wow, that's messy. ::

Okay, what do I think should happen? Exactly what has happened in England and China. Teach your fighters how to fight in the am system that currently exists, have some fighters who excel in the current system, and turn them into pros who generate hype and still succeed as pros. This is England after 2008 and I suspect it will be China, too, when they start turning pro.

 

Yeah, you can certainly breed fighters who will successful in the pros that way as well as increase the US olympic showing; especially when the majority of their opponents came up through the same system. From a utilitarian stand point you're on the money.

But Im afraid you won't breed many fighters I want to watch. You'll just breed more guys like Amir Khan etc who's whole game is based on speed, range, indiscriminate flurrying & putting the ear muffs up. There's barely evidence of sentience. Just a personal thing I suppose.....but I don't think any of my favourite 10 fighters had exceptionally illustrious amateur careers even before the change in rules and the disparity has been greatly exaggerated since.

I wish the scoring would change.

 

Agree with Hut. When these guys are learning how to fight, they're learning how to win Am fights. It's who they become as fighters.

 

It's the reason I spend about 20x more time watching fights from the 40s thru 80s than I do modern fights. Pirog, Martinez, Guzman and a few other guys are the only guys I'd open my blinds to watch fight in the back yard.::

I laugh but Im crying inside.