Who was the bigger fraud?

Tito or Cotto?

Tito had a laughably bad reign as Welterweight. He fought a collective whose who badly the fuck is that. He lost to the one decent fighter he fought in that division dlh. Did not fight the other decent champion at that weight Quartey. Did not fight Pea until 2 years AFTER DLH beat him and Pea was pulled out of rehab.

Fought two novices at 154 and had to foul his way to victory over Vargas.

When he moved up he was murdered by Hopkins and Winky with absolute ease. Both had more concerns in sparring. Then, he is humilated by RJJ who was terrified of him and still won in a landslide.


Cotto. Had Tszyu , PBF and Hatton all at 140. He fights Malignaggi who has zero non-broken hands. He fights prospects then moves up to take on blown or former junior welters, shot welters, never was beens and quitters. He finally fights a man who is all heart and will with very little talent who is his own weight class and he sits on the ground and quits after getting the shit beaten out of him. He has been on tv for 8 years and still has not stepped up and fought an a lister. Unlike Tito, Cotto's people got too big for their briches and got their man exposed before he got to the mountain top


Who was the bigger fraud?

Both guys were moved soft for too long. Both guys were dominated every single time they were tested.

Fightbeat what say you all?

 

or Free Ike who has been lurking around the site for weeks..maybe months not wanting to post cause REED might mean to him and say stuff....having his Cali boy fight a futile smacktalk battle with REED in the smacktalk section...:nono:...whos only reason for restarting his posting was because a fighter he though was mostly hype got beat......

 

Neither are frauds. But Tito was a much better fighter and woulda knocked a hole in Cotto's ass at 147.

 

You must be kidding. ::::Your English is worse than your Spanish. You know that Reed's smacktalk was funny to me right. Again, don't be angry I have gotten the better of you again.

 

Why do you think that. I never thought much of Cotto but he beats ever single nobody Tito beat with the exception of DLH. I bet Cotto would have done better against DLH then Tito did as well.

 

I have doubts about that. Also, Cotto would have lost to Vargas, of that I have no doubt.

Tito was bigger, rangier, WAY more powerful, with a better arsenal, better stamina, a quicker left hook, and probably a better chin as well.

 

I meant at welter. Vargas was a different guy before and after Tito. I never thought Vargas was an all time great. He lacked the handspeed and chin. I think Cotto could fight on even terms with Vargas.

I disagree on the better arsENAL. Cotto has more puches. Tito was very one dimensional. His chin was not that much better.

 

Neither are frauds, but my beef with Cotto was that he was credited more for being at a level where he actually wasn't.

Sure, Trinidad decisively lost to De La Hoya, Hopkins and Wright. But those fights were fought a higher plateau of class.

imo that deserves better perspective than wins over the likes of Malignani, Torres, Judah, Gomez, a 37 year-old Mosley (who, even in defeat, finished the fight stronger than Cotto) only to get brutalized by a supposedly limited, basic and average guy like Margarito.

In fairness though, from a technical standpoint, Cotto arguably has a better skill-set than Trinidad.

It's just too bad that he's a short welter with lesser punching power, range, wind, chin and physical strength.

Match him up with a bigger, bull-strong (though lesser skilled) guy with better durability, stamina, and with lots of determination and he's fucked.

Vargas? Even on just sheer physicality, prime Nando (who's just as strong as Margarito) would've been hell for Cotto. And as much as he gets flak for his defense, Vargas had the offensive arsenal to match Cotto. Plus, I doubt Miguel could've hurt him the same way Tito did.

DLH? His stamina isn't great, but so is Cotto's. And Oscar betters him in just about everything else: DLH is taller and rangier, has quicker feet and better movement, superior hand speed, better jab, better defense (his parrying style matches up well with Miguel), and, a much bigger punch. Also, while I'm pretty sure Oscar's chin could take a left hook from Cotto, I couldn't say the same thing vice-versa.

 

I think Tito was the bigger Fraud,.. hand-wraps lead him to a certain Lightheavyweight residing at middleweight, who was just as much a cunning cheat as Tito was, and therefore had the 'feelers', the immediate 'pathological instincts' to 'detect' a fellow cheat like two territorial males of the same specie, once in the ring the man who belonged at middleweight as much as the man who belonged at welterweight, unravelled Tito's career in the same way as it was done in the dressing room a few minutes before entry.

 

Yeah, good point. Once Tito's concrete wraps were exposed his knockout power mysteriously disappeared. If boxing were a real sport, he'd be banned for life and his entire record would be deleted. I must be getting old. Tito is only slightly better than that Resto kat who took out his padding.

 

That is a much more diplomatic way of saying what I am saying.

 

Jeffrey Resto did that?????? :dunno:

 

Proof please.

 

Well I guess one could say it was just made up, afterall, the Hopkins camp probably needed an extra excuse to justify that ordinary performance. Tito's previous opponents froze like they'd been hit with an iron bar whenever that left hand connected even remotely flush, particularly in the higher profile fights---................After that little 'protest' occured in Tito's dressing room which was .....apparently made up, Hopkins takes those vaunted left hooks as if he'd been brushed with a silk sleeve,.. ---- it seemed as if someone's power ...had literally vanished moments before the fight :crafty:, but what confuses me is why would Hopkins camp let the cat out of the bag when they could've allowed Hopkins the lofty reputation of being truelly superhuman?, the monster who takes Tito's iron bar left hand like as if it were simply nothing, considering Tito's got a string of victims who've had thier careers wrecked by his 'supernatural' power?, ...surely it would have done Hopkins reputation a wooooooorld of good,.. but those malicious story telling scitzophrenic team bastards went and softenned his career defining fight, spoiling it somewhat, by the disgust of thier own imaginations..., by something they got together and made up,....which they couldn't help but mention?,..the degenerate rat bastards,. I guess they all dont know what's good for em' ..:crafty:.

 

This is conjecture. Proof please.

 

Pictures of Tito and his team, posing for a family photo with the illegal wrap still on his fist, all for the convenience of the Hopkins camp to reproduce....would really do wonders, but um, I'd imagine, just like Hopkins team imagining fake stories, that Tito's camp wouldn't really,..ah,..ah,..don't, don't very much agree,.. :crafty:

 

Hey I'm not saying he didn't wrap them but this has been going around for years and I can't remember anyone producing proof of any form.

 

:bears:

 

What form of proof are you after genie? .. I read an article a while ago from Hopkins team talking about thier discovery, and then, a few subtle observations regarding Tito's career kind've clicked together in making them allegations plausibley valid from an outsiders point of view. What was most chilling in this article was the news that Tito's handwrapping man who had the look of a deer in headlights, shortly after being informed that it was an illegal and dangerous way to wrap hands, gaffed "But that's the way I've always wrapped them?".. ....Meanwhile Tito's groupies take delight in discussions about "who's career did Tito ruin worse?"...

 

A link to an article with the gaffe would be an excellent start.

 

Well genie,..I can give u a link to the board where it was pasted and from where I read an article on the issue.. but through google, it seems that a few websites at the time, interviewed Hopkins, Fisher, Vargas, Joppy and the like about Tito's suspected wraps,..and there have been a bundle of articles written on the issue,..including one written by Steve Kim,..

Where I first read it,..

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36652&page=2
(Scroll down a fraction)


And the version written at Maxboxing,..

http://www.maxboxing.com/Kim/kim102901.asp

:crafty:

 

why follow boxing if guys like tito and cotto are frauds? :boohoo:

 

this sport is doomed if the people who follow it are this hare-brained to call Cotto and Tito frauds. you think either/or both of them are overrated to a degree? fine - that's a fair debate, but frauds? what a joke of a thread

 

As usual, a sizeable group of boxing fans are applying the "what have you done for me lately" mentality to judging the entire career of a boxer. I don't doubt at all that if Cotto came back and beat Margarito decisively we would see "IS Cotto #1 P4P??" threads.

I will grant that when a supposedly elite fighter gets KO'd in 3 rounds by a limited opponent, it's human nature to wonder a bit about how good they really were. But in Cotto's case, his loss was very competetive. In fact, I think if his stamina was about 3 minutes better we may have seen a draw or tight Cotto victory.

Further, Cotto did not quit. He got up beat and bloodied ready to get KOd if that's what was next, and his corner stepped up and stopped the fight. Doing that turned the fight from what could have been a career-ending knockout to a minimally damaging loss. I don't really think Cotto has lost anything coming out of that fight other than his undefeated record.

Finally, I don't think Margarito will ever be any better than he is now. I think this is his peak, and with his style there really is no changing him. Cotto on the other hand can still get better. He is younger than Marg, and he is still refining his technique. Cotto also made the mistake of treating this fight like every other fight, and his game plan reflected that. His deadpan "oh it's just another fight" was a big mistake, he has a wide range of boxing skill and there were a number of things he could have done to try to mitigate Margarito's style, but he thought he didn't need to. He was wrong.

If they have a rematch a year from now, I give Cotto a great chance to win. Margarito is as known a commodity as you get, he will change nothing.

Whatever happened to losses being learning experiences? Why do they make you a "fraud"? When Margarito lost to Paul Williams, was he a "fraud"? Is he still a fraud? Even meat-and-potatoes Margarito learned something from that loss, and now he starts faster than he used to in order not to drop too many early rounds. Cotto can certainly do the same coming out of this loss. He will never be Sugar Ray Robinson, but he is certainly an elite fighter at 147, no question.

 

Ridiculous topic.

Matter of fact, your first link's thread has a great article that pretty much outlines the spuriousness of the theory...and the irresponsibility of Kim's "journalism" (in reality a yellow piece of dung).

 

Absolutely.

 

:bears:

 

Neither are frauds. Both beat good fighters during their reign as champions.


Tito was better, though.