Who Would You Rate As The Greater Fighter? #2

Same idea as Ramonza's thread.

 

I actually brought this up on another board since I have a tough time splitting them apart. Some idiots were saying Hagler was FAR better than Spinks and would've beaten him. Not P4P, but straight up.

Both guys were really versatile. Hagler was mostly a boxer throughout his career yet turned to an aggressive attacker against Hearns and took him out. He could box southpaw or orthodox, outside or inside, move around the ring or trade up close in the trenches (just watch the Briscoe fight to see him do both effectively). Spinks could bomb guys out with power of more patiently box behind his jab and move.

Hagler had many more pro fights, more than twice as many as Spinks. Of his three losses and two draws, I had him beating Watts & Antuofermo and drawing with Leonard. Assuming the other loss and draw are correct, I have him at 64-1-2. Really impressive. Spinks did a ton in just 32 fights though, fighting in one of the best LHW eras ever. He usually ranks as high, or almost as high, in LHW history as Hagler does in MW history. Holmes may have been aging, but was still the legitimate HW champ, naturally far bigger than Spinks, and the first fight was a fair decision.

I normally would just ride the fence but I'll be a little biased here and pick Spinks. That hadn't been done in what, 90 years?

 

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:laughing::laughing::laughing:

For a preview of what Spinks-Hagler would look like STRAIGHT UP, just check out Spinks-Marvin Johnson. Hagler woulda shared the same fate.

Anyway.... Hagler was SLIGHTLY greater IMO. But I think Spinks was the best fighter, slightly.

But Hagler woulda had about as much chance moving up to fight Spinks as Pryor woulda had moving up to fight Hagler. Marvin knew better not to fuck with Spinks. Which is why he stayed at 160, and called out Hearns & Leonard.

 

I'd give Hagler the edge. One of the very best middleweights ever, with an excellent record.

It's true, for having only 32 fights (10 less than Chavez Jr :: :: ) - Spinks has a brilliant record.

But on overall accomplishments and abillity I give Hagler the edge.

Incidentally, why do you think Spinks retired after only 1 defeat, and at what, age 32?

 

Why not? Its better then fighting til your shot and in your 40's like RJ & Hop and embarassing yourself.

Spinks dominated 175, moved up and upset Holmes, then got blown away by one of the most devesating fighters in history, in that fighters prime.

No shame in Spinks retiring after the Tyson fight. What more else could he have done?

 

Don't get me wrong - there's certainly no shame in it, but it's odd though, that's for sure.

Fighters, especially good fighters, seem to love the actual boxing as much as the money, which is why it's hard for many fighters to really retire.

So someone retiring age 32, after one loss, and no comeback etc, it's actually pretty odd in boxing.

Although I don't like to see fighters do a Hopkins or RJJ, there are some retirements I don't like either. Like Hamed and Tszyu. They should have continued fighting and sought rematches. With Hamed the hype train came to a sudden stop, and he knew it. That was the definition of exposed.

The reason I don't have a problem with Spinks retiring is he wasn't even a proper heavyweight as it was, and clearly didn't have a chance in hell of beating Tyson.

 

Thats just it. Spinks didnt like boxing. Numerous ppl have said it. He was in it soley for the money.

I once thought RJ was the same way, but the last few years have made it apparent that Roy likes to fight, and is truly in denial thinking he's still young.

BTW - as for Tszyu and Hamed. Tszyu was justified for retiring. When he quit on his stool, he had realized that he had nothing left. Not just in the fight, but overall.

The Princess retired for two reasons 1. Loss of interest in the sport/had all the money he wanted 2. MAB ripped out his balls, and made him too embarassed to fight on.

 

I think Spinks had gotten sick of boxing and had lost a lot of his love of the sport. After winning the gold medal he was apparently tired of boxing and became a janitor. So if he was losing some of the love of the sport as an amateur I can only imagine it must've gotten worse with all the business that went on once he became a successful pro and was making good money.

 

At a moments' notice, I am leaning toward Spinks --- I am open to persuasion on it, though. Good, solid head-scratcher, Whiskey. Maybe we could make a series of this kind of thread. Matching fighters like this, in a somewhat indirect way, & across era & divisions, can spark fresh debate. Charles & Duran sure are an odd couple, for instance.

 

Howard Davis hated boxing also.

 

I'd lean towards Hagler, initially. It's a question worthy of a little thought though, so I'll come back to this....

 

I got Hagler.

Dont get me wrong, I LOVE Spinks, but his P4P reputation is built on a pair of wafer thin, contentious wins over an old version of Holmes. After that, he was scared SHITLESS and SPARKED by Tyson. Then he retired.

Hagler has more depth to his career and proved more for me. That said, this one is very much a matter of opinion, methinks.

I'm still taking Hagler, though...

MTF

 

Xplosive and Erratic - wow, damn, well that makes sense then obviously.

It's pretty shocking to me though that Spinks could be that good and NOT love the sport.

I agree about Roy too. Unless he has serious money problems, it's clear he just loves to box, and is really, really in denial, trying to fight like a prime RJ.

 

Roy likes the attention, not fighting.

 

I give a very slight edge here to Marvin Hagler because of how busy he was and how much he got done against most of the world's best middleweights before he even won the title... also his KO of Hearns is very big and I thought he should have gotten the slight nod against Leonard... Spinks has a wonderful resume himself but half the fights, and though he did beat Holmes, Holmes was ready to be taken and it was still close... and he got a gift in the rematch... someone could say Spinks ahead of Hagler and I wouldnt argue all that much because I think it is that close... but I like Marvin's consisitently fine resume

 

Spinks...

Was just as Dominant @ Lightheavy as Hagler was @ Middle AND he Went On to Win the Heavyweight Title...NO Brainer, Actually...



REED:mj:

 

Spinks Absolutely LOATHED the Sport of Boxing...As GREAT as he Was @ it, Spinks DIDN'T Enjoy ANY Aspect of it...N Fact, After Winning a Gold Medal, Spinks Worked a FACTORY Job for like a YEAR, if REED's Not Mistaken...


REED:hammert:

 

He didn't have the length of domination that Hagler had at middleweight, or the length of career. Spinks accomplished a lot, but Marvin is the more proven fighter for my money, despite Spinks winning the HW title.

Marvin has a better record at 160 than Spinks has at 175, I guess it depends on how much credit you give him for winning the heavyweight title.

 

Yep, Xplosive and Erratic said the same thing.

And "like I said before" - that seriously, seriously surprises me. How can you be an elite fighter and not even like it?

 

Yep...



REED:mj:

 

Well, Spinks was THE FIRST Lightheavy Champ to EVER Win the Heavyweight Title, so REED Gives him TONS of Credit for it...& Spinks TOOK Larry Holmes' "0" from him...On a PERSONAL Note, REED has Always Rated Multi-Weight Achievements HIGHER than Single Weight Dominance...



REED:mj:

 

Actually that is true, I forgot about that. That's obviously a huge accomplishment.

I generally do too, that's why I do rate Duran, Hank, and of course Pacman VERY highly.

 

You never had a talent for something you weren't fond of? Ever?

 

Spinks' cowardly display against Tyson hurts him IMO and gives Hagler the edge. Also, Hagler's victory over Hearns is, IMO, a better victory than any that Spinks had.

 

:shit:

1st of All, Michael Spinks Says that he ALWAYS Fought w/Full-Blown FEAR...2nd of All, U're 1nce Again Denigrating a GREAT Prizefighter w/this "Coward" Shit???...How would YOU have Behaved in the Tyson Fight, Sly???...

REED's Guessing there'd have Been a Trail of URINE Leading from YOUR Dressing Room to YOUR Corner...& your Face would B a Disgusting Mask of TEARS & SNOT BUBBLES...

But Yeah, Michael Spinks Put Forth a "Cowardly Display" Against Arguably THE Most INTIMIDATING & POWERFUL Heavyweight Ever...




REED:shit:

 

Spinks would never run against Carlos Baldomir.

 

Shit, Yacqui Lopez & Marvin Johnson Would've Done a # on Baldomir, Nevermind Spinks....



REED:kidcool:

 

Yauqi Lopez was every bit as good as Castillo. He just had the misfortune of being in the deepest lightheavy era ever.

And those wins aside.... Spinks beat prime versions of Eddie Mustafa Muhammed, and Qawi.... both of whom were excellent fighters, and very underrated.

 

REED...you're my boy and all but...

I'm not a professional fighter, much less a champion. A different standard applies to me than would apply to a guy like Michael Spinks.

Spinks quit before the Tyson fight,..apparently he didn't even want to come into the ring. Butch lewis had to persuade him and I watched it live and their was a revealing moment when cameras caught him in the dressing room and everyone was trying to console him and then the cameras were spotted and the door was closed suddenly etc.

Anyway...in the press conferences leading up to the fight, Spinks was anything but confident.

And I don't GIVE A SHIT about how I would have felt fighting Tyson becaue I'm not a:

1. heavyweight
2. professional Fighter
3. Champion
4. UNDEFEATED CHAMPION

So how I would feel is IRrelevant, homie.

Dude...we denigrate fighters ALL THE TIME...you do so yourself. Don't get twisted just because I'm criticizing fighters that YOU like. Didn't you call Carlos Baldomir, BUMdomir for example? You think you could beat this "BUMdomir". Thie list goes on.

You don't see me e-jumping on you when you criticize fighters...because that's what we do as fans.

So give this ":shit:" stuff a rest....



Sly....