I see so many fights these days in which you can look at these European fighters and on the surface, they don't look special. It seems like almost every European fighter has that true basic Kelly Pavlik style. However, they come to kick ass, and they usually do it. Daniel Jacobs, nice style, extensive amateur background but had his ass handed to him by Dmitry Pirog. Joe Calzaghe/Lacy Arthur Abraham/Taylor Hell, even Sturm/De La Hoya! Now, I have to admit, it's primarily the eastern block countries, but the same thing applies. It looks like I cherry picked here. All in all, when I see an American outclassing a European, I'm always thinking in the back of my mind, "It's just a matter of time before he gets caught". Is it an overall talent issue with European fighters or are they just more "Hardened"?.... The clowns we have here in our ghettos think they are doing some real shit by robbing, stealing and going back and forth to prison; cats in some parts of Europe have been ducking and dodging land mines and AK's. When I see European boxers, they are truly well schooled; however, outside of the basics, there isn't anything else that really stands out------ While, maybe a solid chin and an unshakable will.
Seems to me that historically there are 10 cases of Mayweather-Hatton for every 1 case of Calzaghe-Lacy. But you're right. It seems like that ratio is becoming smaller.
I think it has gotten much narrower now that the eastern block countries are in full effect. Remember, these guys were not allowed to compete in the pro's, so we never got a chance to see how well they would have done historically. It's no coincidence that they've splashed onto the scene over the last 15 or so years after they were allowed to compete. Kostya Tszyu was just one of many to come.
Increase in European talent levels, slight decrease in American talent levels, more Europeans fighting, fewer Americans fighting, Europe now knows about Steroids, not just an American monopoly.
This statement is moronic. Steroids were initially discovered and developed in European countries (Germany led the way). Add to that, the fact that it was actually Russia which started popularizing steroids with the success of its entry into the Olympics and then the East German doping scandal, administered with or without the knowledge of East German athletes. Irish, use your head before you post.
The fall of the Iron curtain has alot to do with it. That's a significant chunk of the worlds population cut off from competing
Oh please......Europe also knew about LSD first...does that mean that nobody in America is getting wacked out? The medical application of these substances in a semi-subtle way is something the regressive regimes of the Eastern Bloc and Soviet Union NEVER mastered in the same way the Americans did. Apples and Apples baby. The Eastern Bloc stuff is half-century old. Its 1960's and 1970's stuff.....and it is stone-age stuff in comparison to the BALCO gear. Mind-blowing shots of testosterone turning women into men vs designer gear that is undetectable? Do me a favour.
Don't be a douche Sly. As if all those Vietnamese and Chinese were knocking on the door in the first place. It's 3% of the World Population, and around 50% of boxings population.
Show me your betting slip that has you backing Joe to whitwash the guy? Lacy was a HEAVY favourite and as soon as Joe was through with him..."Oh lacy was never special"....:shit:
To this day Marita Koch and Jarmila Kratochvilova are the only "women" to break 48 seconds for the 400m. After them Gladische, Krabbe, Drechkler and a bunch of Eastern European women were dominating the sprints until the Ben Johnson scandal. Suddenly Eastern European women can't break 11 seconds for the 100m. You trying to tell me that in the past the didn't master the "subtle" art of steroid application?
Check through these forums and you'll see me picking Joe in that one. VERY EASY fight to pick if you know boxing like the slyest of posters! :hammert:
Europeans have had mixed success, nothing extraordinary,.. what Americans should be afraid of is if China and India begin to take professional boxing seriously, millions and millions into academies,..:: ho ho ho you'll be screaming "Worst era in boxing history!!!" if that occurs, not just crying about the heavyweight division. :crafty:
I know. The problem is I don't watch every single fight or follow every single fighter. I only predict on the big fights.
Spot on. The Russians have excellent training systems, but they are or at least WERE totally state-sponsored like Cuba's boxing program. That type of support is hard to beat. You don't see too many boxing academies in Canada or the States, and none that are government-sponsored/funded. Same goes for many other sports---the government takes the kids in at an early age and they give the parents or other family members jobs. That's tough to beat.
Are you really trying to say that East Germany developed a national program of doping up into the 1980s and then quit entirely. Come ON, dude. You're an educated person. But like I said, your original statement was crapola and it's indicative of your usual anti-U.S. bias.
Let's say East Germany had the most advanced Doping Programme in the 1980's. Let's just assume that the US, which was winning the Cold War on all fronts was lagging in that regard...the 1980's was..........30+ years ago. What would have been cutting edge then is decidedly obsolete by now. Not only did East Germany quit its doping programme by the end of the 1980's, it quit ITSELF by the end of the 1980's. The wall came down, the books were opened, big Brother disappeared and the already nascent East German doping industry became the German doping industry and went from strength to strength. Sure. Yes, my "usual anti-US bias". Thats real Tea-Party talk. America won the Cold War. America invented "The Clear". Its really very simple.
BALCO != US Government. Any European fighter has easy access to American drugs, the underground labs here don't give a shit where you're from as long as your money's green. And I'm sure the Russians have a doping program that's as advanced as anything BALCO has/had. We just haven't heard about it, because the Russian government isn't going to go busting the Russian government. Duh. Oh and make no mistake, BALCO's gear would've had considerably more pronounced androgynous effects on females than the (relatively weak) Turinabol East German women were taking, especially in the ridiculous dosage levels they used for women. Both Irish's girlfriends were/are admitted steroid abusers, btw.
Oh, so...we can expect Marion Jones to start looking like Jarmila Krotc-all-ova and Martina Navratilova, anytime soon, right??? Klitschkos are from Ukraine by the way. And now that you have mentioned my girlfriends, I have to go and smash their heads in with an axe and bury them under the patio, to restore my honour.
Yes, an airbrushed Maxim picture of someone who was actively trying to hide evidence of steroid abuse, using MUCH lower dosages, and was probably not on cycle at the time is comparable to a picture of a random, un-airbrushed photo of a woman who never came off cycle and took dosages that would've caused noticeable virilization in men, let alone women (back then, due to their limited understanding of the drugs and lack of need to avoid detection, women were given 2-3x the dosages that men were - whereas nowadays they would give a fraction of the dosage to a woman). Aside from that, whether or not you suffer from virilization symptoms is also partially genetic (just like whether a man suffers from estrogen symptoms). BALCO's THG is more androgenic than T-bol, anyone who says otherwise really has no clue what the fuck they're talking about (that means you). Put the German freak in the picture on Shane Mosley's dosage of THG and her clit would outsize your little Irish willy even further. edit: I never claimed the Klits weren't Ukrainian (?) Anyway, my main point was about government vs private labs.
