Canelo vs Kirkland - Final Predictions

Canelo lost to Floyd. Let's get down to it.

 

Just before Saul dropped Kirkland, he had wobbled him and reddened his face. Kirkland is awful and the layoffs and what-not appear to have reduced his resistance. Those sparring sessions where he just beat up on hapless sparring partners are paying off handsomely now. :wack:

 

The final shot was big. The first knockdown...those punches should have been taken by any self-respecting 154.5lb fighter.

 

It was, kind of, at the time. Looking back on it, its an enjoyable bit of matchmaking and a profitable evening for Canelo.

He gets some Golovkin hype without actually having done a whole load.

 

I think Ugo and REED are going a bit overboard.

Canelo is the same guy last night that he was several years ago against Mosley, Kirkland simply has a child's chin and couldn't handle Ginger's power.

Furthermore, Canelo's been trained by the same guys all his life and seems pretty content and loyal to them. So after damn near 50 fights, having been on the championship level for several years now, and in your mid 20's trained by the same guys, he basically is what he is.

As for Canelo's stamina problem............ some guys just NATURALLY have a lower tank than others. It has NOTHING to do with training, cause by all accounts Ginger is a gym rat and trains like a beast. And it's not like he's a balls-to-the-wall guy who goes out blasting and burning himself out early. He's a naturally SELECTIVE puncher who punches in spurts. And still fades late. Sounds to me like he just naturally doesn't have the highest tank in the world. That can't really be corrected.

The Latin greats of the past who could fight all night long without their stamina failing - like Duran, Chavez, Arguello, Sanchez. I just think they had God-given great endurance. Not every fighter has it. Canelo obviously doesn't.

 

I'll give Canelo credit for one other thing - his chin is very solid.

Kirkland at one point caught him in-between combos with a HUGE left hand that woulda bailed him out vs a lot of guys, and Canelo didn't blink.

Now the REAL test will be how he handles Cotto's left hook.

 

Kirkland, the more I look at him, is just awful.

One one occasion, he had Canelo backed into a corner.

I watched kirks feet....three times he had to move them, without going anywhere, just to get into punching stance.

Agreed with Xplosive, Alavarez looks tough enough, took a few decent shots.

Then again, Kirkland spent all evening knocking Brian Vera down.

 

Agreed. Canelo is also more European than any of the guys you mentioned. Maybe a bit more Andean in him and he'd make better use of the Oxygen he sucks in. Something else too, his florid fair face gives the impression of a guy who is blowing harder than he is. He was soaked in sweat by the 2nd round. He looks fucked when he probably really isn't.

 

Yeah, Kirk's not a quality fighter. I knew it was a long shot that he would survive Canelo's early assault. But I'll admit that Ginger impressed me and stopped Kirk about 3-4 rounds earlier than I thought he would.

Now casual fans who watched last night think that Canelo is a Bob Foster-type puncher. Which is fine, even if it's not true. Anything to get them to tune-in.

Canelo-Cotto will do very good PPV numbers. We're talking about the biggest PR vs Mexican fight since Tito-Vargas. Only Tito-Vargas only did 520,000 PPV buys. Canelo vs Cotto numbers will be a lot higher than that (even if they aren't the fighters that Tito and Vargas were). I predict in the 800-900k buy range. Who knows? MAYBE they crack a mil.

 

I think the average fan is watching less and less boxing, developing a less and less well-rounded opinion and knowledge, and then spunking the ranch on a big PPV card, before retiring to the water-cooler to discuss events with their co-workers.

Boxing isn't dead, it's just modern.

 

Subscription channels and the PPV model is largely responsible for that. Never mind the stars, even the more promising of prospects you usually have to pay to watch. That's at least the case in North America.

 

Yep...


It's STRANGE to Think a Fighter, 2 Months Shy of his 25th Birthday, is ALREADY as Good as he's Going to Get...If You're Talking an Aggressive, Balls to the Wall, TYSON Sort, Sure, but Canelo Is Anything BUT...

In the Lineage of Mexican Greats, Canelo's More Sanchez than Chavez, More Marquez than Margarito...There's SCIENCE to Canelo's Style & Science Can Be IMPROVED Upon...By the Time Canelo's 27-28 We'll Be Able to Say "He's as Good as he's Going to Get", but NOT Now...




REED:nono:

 

Of course, I agree with all that and then some.

BUT.....there are fewer forensic examiners of the sport.

I followed boxing religiously when I had NO access to the TV and when streams were things that ran in a wood or field.

This forum is pretty well educated, and I would say we have, what, 30 hardcore members who routinely watch fights and report back on them :dunno:

Boxings support base has become top-light, it's a very narrow peak sat on a very broad base of very casual fans who can name maybe 5 fighters.

 

I think the internet exaggerates it though.

Even if we go back to a time when the talent level in boxing was deeper across the board you would still hear questions like "when is Oscar De La Hoya going to fight Tyson" and shit like that from casual fans. Boxing message boards are a bubble.

 

Let's Remember who's GUIDING Canelo's Career; Oscar Dela Hoya...


If/When DeLa Feels Canelo Needs a NEW Trainer, it'll Happen...You Know Better than REED that's it's EXTREMELY Rare for a Fighter to Retain 1 Trainer for the Duration of his Career...Hell, DeLa Treated Trainers like a Pair of Socks, ROUTINELY Changing Them...Even if they Only Bring In "Another Voice" to "Work With" Canelo's Current Trainer, REED Would Expect a More KNOWN Quantity to Be Brought In, @ Some Point...

REED Would Loooooooove to See what Nacho Beristain Could Add to Canelo's Game...What Defensive Adjustments a Guy like Virgil Hunter Could Add...Or if Freddie Roach Could Put the Final Touches on Canelo's Style...REED Isn't Even Sure Canelo has a LEGITIMATE Nutritionist/Strength & Conditioning Coach @ This Point...

It's Almost like he's Still WINGING It...

There's Definitely Room for and TIME for Improvement, Brother X...





REED:fightme:

 

The Internet accentuates it. You get guys who are big boxing fans and think GSP is their favourite "fighter".

The internet confuses them. They get their big names all mixed up.

I noticed this around the 1990's, as you say, it pre-dates the Internet.

 

Canelo has promise, not too much, but he has room to improve.

 

PLEASE don't overboard based on him destroying Kirkland.

Sanchez?????? GTFOH!!!!!

Canelo's closer to Jose Luis Lopez than Sal Sanchez.

 

Kirkland would be a tough out if he could take a punch.

 

Nacho Beristain is who I had in mind as well. The patient counterpuncher approach is sort of why I think Cotto will beat Canelo, though. Still, Canelo is big & younger, with way less miles on him. He has a shot.

 

Possibly. I don't know if it was shotness or inactivity, but his feet were all over the place last night and he is too slow getting himself set up to both throw and avoid shots.

 

Yeah, he's never been much for skill. But he can be overwhelming, I think.

 

Sal Sanchez was fluid of both hand and foot, had natural skills that Canelo simply wasn't born with, and most of all....... wasn't a huffer and puffer after a few rounds!

When is this big improvement that you predict in Canelo gonna happen? I have yet to see it. Nothing he showed last night was NEW. The kid has ALWAYS been a good combination puncher, and was facing a man with the worst defense in boxing so naturally he was gonna land those combos at will.

You expecting Canelo to go from what he is, which a good/very good fighter to a special fighter one day just isn't gonna happen.

Canelo is NOT an overwhelming talent. He's a very good (not great) offensive talent, and I don't see him havin the physical tools for much else.

I think you put a bit too much emphasis on what can be taught versus what's just THERE.

Sal Sanchez didn't have to progress to 27-28 before he became special. He died at 23, and was already a special fighter at that young age, simply because he had "it". The "it" is just that gift that great fighters are born with and can't be taught. I've never seen that "it" in Canelo.

 

And if Terry Norris could take a punch he would have been a top 15 atg.

 

I think Kirk is def slower now than he was 4 years ago when he beat Angulo. But it's hard to tell because Canelo's hands are so much quicker than sloth Angulo's.

 

Sloth Angulo... who didn't train. :nono:

 

It'll be interesting to see if Canelo keeps his power once he moves up to 160 & is fighting bigger guys

 

He should fight out vs. Lemieux before trying GGG.

 

That'd be a good once actually, would like to see it

 

Calm Down and RE-REED the Post, Homey....


In NO Way Did REED Compare Canelo to Sanchez or Marquez, So Please END that Line of Thinking Here and Now, & Focus on the POINT REED's Making...

The WAY Canelo Fights, ie., COUNTERPUNCHING, is Closer to the WAY Sanchez Fought, than the Way Chavez Fought...CLOSER to the Way Marquez Fights, than the Way Margarito Fought...& That's Not an Earth Shattering Observation, Either...

MORE than the Stereotypical Mexican Fighter, Canelo Relies on SCIENCE to Get it Done (Like Sanchez and Marquez Did, as Compared to Chavez and Margarito)...SKILL, TECHNIQUE, his BRAIN...Those are Traits that Can ALWAYS Be Improved Upon, Particularly in the Case of a 24 Year Old...






REED:kidcool: