Could the best fighters have been just as dominant if they had just done MMA?

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Phoenix, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    GSP is another good example. Guy had pretty much zero serious fighting backgrounds before turning pro, yet turned into a dominant champ because of his athleticism. This is pretty much unheard of in boxing (yes, yes I know Qawi, but he wasn't as close to being as dominant as GSP was), cause usually, the top guys are among the top athletes in the worls and have been training in boxing since they were young. So athleticism can only bring you so far. With the popularity and the purses of MMA growing, I expect this to change eventually
     
  2. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    You're missing the point...

    I'm saying that in a street fight anyone has a chance...which is true. I never said it was a good chance. It's a VERY SLIM chance...but there is a chance nevertheless.

    But the average Joe has NO CHANCE at beating Bolt in a 100m race.

    That's the difference. I think that point went over your heads as usual....
     
  3. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Well, wouldn't it be more fair to pit the average mook in with Joshua in a boxing match? I mean, you're pitting him with Bolt in a 100m race right? So a boxing match would be more fair. Otherwise it would be like matching your average mook against Bolt in an impromptu street triathlon.

    In which case no one would have a chance with either. In either case, the only chance would be if Bolt or Joshua fell over and broke their legs, which is obviously not a real chance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  4. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Precisely. Stipe being a dominant HW is a prime example.

    And yeah, when you get a legit athlete in MMA, like Joosp, they stand out.

    I mean fuck, look at Brock, that would never happen in boxing in a million years.
     
  5. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Anybody who thinks elite boxers would be elite mma guys (or vice versa) had they just changed their focus is stupid.

    There will be some exceptions because the sports have similarities, but the differences are profound and determinative.

    This is no different than Bruce Lee, middle linebackers in the NFL, Wilt Chamberlain, Ronda Rousey and all the other nonsense people spout off about with great confidence.
     
  6. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    I was responding to the below discussion

     
  7. Rich ´Money´ Mustard

    Rich ´Money´ Mustard DIE!

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    But you´re still directly comparing Boxing to Mixed Martial Arts - and that´s where the problem lies: it can´t be directly compared.
    You´re baically suggesting that MMA fighters suck at ring generaliship, ring IQ and overall stamina....because they havent applied those three aspects to their game theough the manner of Boxing.

    You can´t do that.

    The fact that Boxing is the overall dominant aspect of combat sports through striking is that its a) easier and b) more natural to stand up and throw a punch.
    The factors that differeniate between the striking using Boxing and striking through MMA are so different:
    * glove size / weight
    * wearing boxing shoes / bare feet
    * ring size / dimensions
    * round-length per minutes
    * shorter distance to hitting target (bigger glove size & shorter stance)
    * different body positioning & stance (open to side-on)
    * different energy output (anaerobic to aerobic)
    * different punch output in both sports


    The physical output in boxing is not necessarily greater than MMA, but more in-line with what an aerobic athlete experiences.
    MMA requires a combination of anaerobic and aerobic fitness that includes kicking (high, medium and low), takedowns, fighting/clinching, grappling, defending in the Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu guard or executing submissions.
    These are all examples of anaerobic elements of the game, which are missing in boxing.




    MWS - just curious, nothng more, but have you tried any Boxing or various Martial Arts?
     
  8. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Yeah, a few actually. I started in traditional martial arts as a kid, and first started boxing when I was 18 or 19. How about you?

    TBH everything you just wrote about stamina was really thrown out the window when PillowFists McGregory gassed out after - lo and behold - about 10 minutes, just like in MMA, and this is after working on stamina harder than he ever has in his life.

    Fighting 12 rounds in boxing is harder than fighting 5 5 minute rounds in MMA, and even McGregory himself has explicitly stated this. So this silly argument that MMA requires more stamina needs to be nixed, it's a myth.
     
  9. Rich ´Money´ Mustard

    Rich ´Money´ Mustard DIE!

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    1 - Boxing when I was in my 20s, then Muay-Thai (insanely tough) and currently Jiu-Jitsu (hugely enjoyable) - not bothered about doing any MMA though.

    2 - The point I made making here is that based on those energy-output points I made, McGregor has spent an inordinate amount of time training those anaerobic factors and conditioned his muscles in way that would not necessarily serve him in a boxing match. (and as we saw, thats exactly what happened)
    Reconditioning muscles to match the demands of a task takes 1000´s of hours of training the mind and the body.
    For example, a 200m sprinter cannot recondition his muscles in a short period to effectively run the 800m or 1500m race at a high-level.

    No, its not a myth, just the scientific and biological fact that the physical strains caused by Aerobic and Anaerobic are different.
     
  10. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Yeah MT looks fucking brutal, I don't mind admitting I wouldn't fancy it at all.

    I've never done MMA or BJJ, but I would really like to try wrestling if it was more of a thing in England, or if I lived near an MMA gym. I think I'd be good at it.

    From some brief experience grappling, I'd say boxing is far more exhausting. Even fighting 4 rounds at a high pace is hard, you can't really catch breathers in the ring, and it's mentally draining the level of focus it takes to NOT get hit.

    And yeah you'd have a point if we were comparing wrestling to boxing, very different requirements, but MMA is more stand up. The fight starts standing, most MMA fights spend more time standing than on the ground, and McGregory himself is basically an amateur boxer, who spends the entire fight standing and striking, and avoiding going to the ground other than panic wrestling, a la Diaz, or injury fallback, a la Hollaway.

    Again, I like MMA, but it's abundantly clear elite MMA fighters do not have the level of stamina and athleticism that elite boxers do. Boxing is a more established sport with a huge talent pool, and the guys that are lacking in any department get weeded out long before they reach elite level. The guys that are left at elite level are proper elite athletes, by and large, with amazing stamina. Obviously if you can't fight for 12 rounds you're not going to win many fights, unless you punch like Julian Jackson.

    Of course you get exceptions - Paulie - no power, Khan - no chin, Canelo - no stamina. But by and large boxers at this level are all round fighting machines, with a level of speed, stamina, toughness, endurance, power, agility, and focus you just don't really see in MMA.

    Again, McGregory is the perfect example. The guy is considered an elite athlete in MMA, and in the boxing ring - against a 40 year old shell of himself Floyd - he looked like a fucking Z level athlete. No speed, no power, no stamina.



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  11. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    To be honest, grappling is fucking hard on the gas tank. When i was training in mma i was always gassed af after a few td and scrambles
     
  12. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    Absolutely not. Boxing is a large part of mma. Your example makes no sense
     
  13. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    This is very true. Greco-Roman wrestlers are in fantastic physical shape, it is just different type of stamina compared to boxers. Floyd would be gassed after two minutes of wrestling as would a marathon runner.

    MMA guys are mixture of these two types, not very good at either
     
  14. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    I know people say that all the time, but in my brief experience of judo and wrestling, I found it MUCH easier on stamina than boxing. I gas easily boxing, and I don't remember gassing at all grappling.
     
  15. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Yeah but that's only because you have shit stamina you out of shape, poutine eating, French speaking notherfucker
     
  16. Destruction and Mayhem

    Destruction and Mayhem PHASE ----3

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    Agreed. Boxing is clearly more exhausting than grappling
     
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  17. Jesus of montreal

    Jesus of montreal WBC Silver Diamond Emeritus Champ

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    I'm pretty sure you never grappled seriously, which makes your comment pretty much baseless.

    Having done both with ''decent'' guys, i'm not sure it is the case. Even laying and praying against a guy that knows what he's doing burns energy rather rapidly
     
  18. REEDsART

    REEDsART MATCHMAKER

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    CURTIS COKES' Birthplace...
    This...

    REED Knows JOURNEYMAN Level Pro Boxers (w/LOSING Records, No Less) who've Successfully Fended Off 2-3 Regular Guys at a Time, w/JUST their Fists, in Street Fights...These Regular Guys WEREN'T Afraid or Undersized Either...

    Didn't Stop Them from Getting their Asses Whipped Though...





    REED:cool:
     
  19. mexican wedding shirt

    mexican wedding shirt The Greatest of Are Times

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    Exactly the same for me. I know a retired pro boxer, a featherweight no less, who has bludgeoned several people at a time like it's nothing. Anyone who thinks a street thug has a chance against a pro boxer, without weapons, has no idea what they're talking about.

    Normal people can't take the shots boxers can, normal people can't throw the shots boxers can (obviously), and also, they can't even see the shots coming or move out of the way. It takes years to build the level of fighting ability boxers have, to suggest a bum on the street could even land a "lucky punch" against a pro fighter, who regularly takes (and avoids) much harder/faster/better punches from other highly trained pro fighters, is an utter disrespect and contempt of boxing. If you believe that, you may as well stop watching boxing and watch worldstar videos instead.

    Put it this way, I've taken jabs from boxers that have been harder than any punch I've taken from scrubs in street fights. Boxers hit ridiculously hard.

    Your average boxer vs thug is going to look something like this

     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  20. mikE

    mikE "Twinkle Toes" McJack

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    Woop t fuck. It's the differences that you need to focus on and the differences are profound. Sure, some people may be able to do both sports at an elite level, but that's just going to be exceptions that prove the rule that most cannot. The sports are distinct.
     
  21. Phoenix

    Phoenix Scrub

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    By the way, another guy for the low IQ list in MMA has to be rockhold losing to bisping. All he had to do was control the fight with hard kicks but look at how he got countered and KOd. It's so basic that it's hard to watch. In that fight he actually could have won it easily but didn't have the IQ or discipline. He showed a glass chin but we see that in many boxers also.
     
  22. Phoenix

    Phoenix Scrub

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    I remember mitch blood green walked up and got smart with Tyson in a nightclub and took some punches to the chin with a bare fist from Tyson which which caused his face swollen badly in interviews if I recall.
     

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