Examples of fighters who fought in lower weight classes than fighters who were...

Discussion in 'General Boxing Discussion' started by Double L, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    ..naturally smaller than them.

    For example, PBF, who started his career at 130, versus Hatton, who started his at 140. Clearly, PBF is the naturally bigger man, even though Hatton started his career 10 pounds North of where PBF started his.

    Likewise, ODH, who is obviously naturally bigger than Juan Diaz, even though he started his career at 130, whereas Diaz started his at 135.

    Or, Hearns, who started his career at 147, but who is clearly bigger than Mugabi, who started his at 154.

    You see? The weight class in which a fighter begins his career is in no way a consistent indicator of the fighter's natural size relative to others. There's many additional factors that only an idiot would feel comfortable overlooking, such as the age of the fighter when he begun his career, his degree of physical maturity, the degree to which the fighter is willing to cut weight at the start of his career, etc. All of these and more are just as telling, if not more, as to a fighter's "natural size."
     
  2. Nobleart

    Nobleart Narwhal King

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    Then:


    [​IMG]


    Now:

    [​IMG]


    :doh::doh:
     
  3. V10

    V10 Amateur

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    Floyd wasn't natural bigger when he was at 130. The impressive thing with Floyd is how strong he has gotten over the years. He has sacrificed a bit of speed for size because that's what he needed against the big fellas.

    With Floyd it wasn't the case like a DLH or Mosley who went down divisions when they became pros to have size advantage. Floyd fought at 126 as an amateur and went up to 130 as a pro and fought there comfortably for several years.
     
  4. joony

    joony Amateur

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    is mayweather naturally bigger than castillo?

    at the time when they fought, didnt castillo seem to have the advantage in size?

    maybe if castillo stopped cheating to make 135 for all those years, he could've developed into a fine 140/147 pounder. who knows?
     
  5. meetthefeebles

    meetthefeebles Drunken Geordie Bastard

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    :) :eek:
     
  6. V10

    V10 Amateur

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    Castillo had like 13 lbs on Floyd when he lost.
     
  7. joony

    joony Amateur

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    no shit.
     
  8. Erratic

    Erratic Amateur

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    I hate day before weigh-ins. It's made a mockery of the concept of weight classes.
     
  9. Erratic

    Erratic Amateur

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    Ray Robinson started at lightweight, Ricky Hatton started at junior welterweight.

    Oscar De La Hoya started at lightweight (and went down to 130 a couple times), Tszyu spent his whole career I think at junior welterweight.

    Jose Luis Castillo started at a weight less than Floyd Mayweather, but Castillo was the bigger guy when they fought.
     
  10. Erratic

    Erratic Amateur

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    It was nine pounds I think. 147 to 138.
     
  11. dymipepel

    dymipepel Im Banned

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    I think we all agree that Castillo is a cheater who got twice beaten by PBF, then KOed by Hatton, who in turn got KOed by Mayweather.
    Now, can we please get back to the topic at hand, namely, should Castillo have started fighting at 147 or 154, had he not been allowed to cheat and fight much smaller fighters at 135?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  12. Arben

    Arben Amateur

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    Diaz fought at like 165 in the amateurs!
     
  13. godking

    godking Amateur

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    How is Floyd naturaly bigger when his walk around weight is 147 while hattons walk around weight is 175 ?
     
  14. Nobleart

    Nobleart Narwhal King

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    Because Hatton turns into a fat shit between fights and Floyd keeps in shape.

    Did you see the differance between arm lengths? That should be a pretty big clue right there.
     
  15. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    see. this is exactly the kind of question that this thread attempts to address - the misconception that weight alone is an indication of a person's natural size. in hatton's case, the explanation's easy. it's because he's fat. that doesn't make him naturally bigger than PBF. it makes him fatter.
     
  16. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    really? well he musta been a fat-azz then because he's certainly not naturally bigger than ODH. that's for sure.
     
  17. whiskey

    whiskey Czarcasm

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    I know it's an entirely different topic, but i completely agree. The whole term "natual" *insert weight class* fighter is laughable. Who the hell knows anymore? We basically make those judgements after a fight based upon how they performed, because whatever it says on the scale means shit nowadays.
     
  18. godking

    godking Amateur

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    fair enough

    If we go by fighting weights Hatton is still heavier though.

    Hatton weighs in on fight night at 154 pnds only once in Floyds carreer has he weighed over 150 pnds.
     
  19. joony

    joony Amateur

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    floyd isnt naturally bigger than hatton. he's just better than hatton which is why he's able to move up and retain his skills at that level, something which many fighters just aren't able to do.
     
  20. Double L

    Double L Book Reader

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    you're still focused on weight though. why is weight an unequivocal indicator of how, "big" someone is?

    i agree that height isn't all that matters either (the example of Williams vs. Tyson is a good one).

    i think more than anything is what we're able to observe with our eyes, holistically. and in these terms, there's no doubt but that PBF is "bigger" than Hatton, just as holistically, Tyson is, "bigger" than Williams.
     
  21. Nobleart

    Nobleart Narwhal King

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    I think there's more fluctuation on fight night for Hatton just because he putting back on what he took off in the 4-5 months previous.

    Mayweather is not a big Welterweight by any means. He has just done a better job of acclimating himself between weight classes then most fighters because he keeps in fantastic shape at all times.

    He also has the reach, which Hatton isn't blessed with either.
     
  22. CleanYourClock

    CleanYourClock Amateur

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    Yes he is better but , he also is bigger ... He is just a bigger person.
    When two guys stand next to each other and everyone , their mother and brother can notice one person is larger then the other , that is a good indication.
     
  23. Donnybrook

    Donnybrook Amateur

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    That part is absolutely true.

    Don't know if this thread is a result of that, but I made this same point in a discussion in another thread.

    Absolutely.

    There is only so long you can claim that a certain fighter is a "blown up X" or "started at Y".

    Pacquiao, for example, is a perfect case in point. So was Duran.

    Peace.
     
  24. Donnybrook

    Donnybrook Amateur

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    Skill and style.

    Hatton's style is terribly dependent on being able to outmuscle an opponent and wear him down....combined with his hand/foot speed being better than your average pressure fighter.

    That doesn't translate well against bigger, stronger opponents at higher weight classes.

    I do believe, however, that Mayweather is "bigger" than Hatton at this point in his career.

    Peace.
     
  25. Ugotabe Kidding

    Ugotabe Kidding Pro Debut

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    Exactly. That is why guys fighting at welter shouldn't get a free pass in p4p lists for having "started at featherweights"
     
  26. KaukipRrr

    KaukipRrr Amateur

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    How about Hopkins the fucken rat?.. He managed to wither himself into a middleweight and did it for years, even at an advanced age, but it's clear to see, that he's larger than just about ALL supermiddlewieghts out there. Same day weigh-ins, DO need to return.
     
  27. TKO

    TKO Administrator Staff Member

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    Fat mess
     
  28. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    I reckon neck size tends to be a good indicator of a fighters natural size. It doesn't change much as fighters move up (or down) through the weights and is a good indicator of natural strength and frame size (better at least than chest size, wrist size, weight between fights etc).

    Examples - Floyd's neck has been going on 16 inches since he was a super featherweight. Hopkins never went above 165lb between fights while at Middleweight but he had a 16 1/2 inch neck even then. Calzaghe ostensibly has almost no muscle anywhere on his frame but his neck is going on 17'. James Toney's neck was enormous even at Middleweight. 9/10 the guy with the bigger neck is gonna be the naturally stronger and bigger looking guy, irrespective of scale weight, IMHO.
     
  29. Hut*Hut

    Hut*Hut The Mackintosh of temazepam

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    He just kept himself in fantastic shape. The guy stayed about 165 all year round.:clap:
     
  30. KaukipRrr

    KaukipRrr Amateur

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    Nup :nono: , I dont think so, you don't turn up to a weigh-in with tuberculosis, and discoloured grey skin if 5lbs is all you've got to shed.
     

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