Personally, I like Dempsey to do a hatchet-job on Norton --- but I know my respect for Dempsey in head-to-head matches is higher than for most here. With that in mind, I'd like to say, in Norton's defence, I don't believe he was as vulnerable to punchers as he is usually made out to be. Not to say he wasn't much stronger against movers or swarmers, but he is often painted as this sitting duck for anyone with a big punch, & I don't buy it. In this case, I think he is simply dealing with too much power, speed, & early-rounds intensity. Unlike Foreman, Dempsey could remain dangerous late as well, should he need to. I see this as being over anywhere inside of four rounds. Maybe Norton will find a more sympathetic viewpoint amongst the wider forum, though?
Dempsey would kill Ken Norton JR. Sr. on the other hand batters him and every boxer on Earth in the 1920s
in the late teens and early 20s he is hands down one of the most important pioneers ever... He opened the floodgates for aggressive tactics and fighting out of a crouch, completely altered the game... It looks primitive now because the tactics have been improved and refined (although, it really is becoming a dying art- fighting that way) ... but for the time, it was utterly revolutionary... Dempsey's place in history can not be denied, he was an immensely important figure, both tactically and in the box office. That said, what was astonishing in 1919 was stiff and primitive by the 40s, never mind Norton's time
Nothing telegraphed about Dempsey's left hook, nor is there anything primitive about his nimble, bobbing footwork. He had relatively poor defense, but that isn't a function of the times. Tunney & Gibbons were two men of the day who had better defense than any Heavyweight lumbering around today (many, grossly overweight). Dempsey would star in any age. Norton, frankly, is not a match, but I know better than to pair Dempsey with greater names on this board. I wonder how low I need go --- how about Ron Stander, or Joe Bugner? These guys couldn't carry Dempsey's jockstrap, but they were born much later, right? I presume John Ruiz, Oleg Maskaev, Ruslan Chagaev --- all mediocre fighters --- would use their modernness to overcome Dempsey as well? Please.
If by "any age", you mean before Joe Louis's time, then I'd agree Rocky Marciano was considered crude in the 1950s and he looks smooth as butter compared to Jack... Floyd Patterson looks like he's from another galaxy by comparison
Absolutely he is... I don't think there's any doubt... Watch each guy fight and tell me who looks smoother to you While you're doing it, bear in mind that it is WAAAAY more difficult to get in there and box Ezzard Charles, Walcott or Archie Moore than it is to box stiff, wooden antiques like Bill Brennan, Jess Willard, Luis Firpo, etc. ... Roland LaStarza would have embarassed those guys, they couldn't hit him in the ass Against vastly more sophisticated fighters with far superior skills and talent, Marciano manages to look smoother in execution than Dempsey
We will just have to disagree. I see Marciano as a poor man's Dempsey, personally. He has an advantage in stamina & probably chin as well (two areas Dempsey did not lack in), & arguably punching power --- hand, foot & reflex speed, range, finishing ability, explosiveness, adaptability...Dempsey, Dempsey, Dempsey. Marciano's level of opposition was pretty damn terrible, outside of a still-good Moore, & washed-up versions of Charles & Walcott. It is quite conceivable that he loses to all three in their primes at HW --- & the level of opposition drops off MASSIVELY for Marciano thereafter.
I'm sorry, but over-the-hill or not, Ezzard Charles would embarass every guy Dempsey ever fought, never mind beat. He would dance circles around those guys and hit them at will... What guy in the 20s could box like him? There's nobody... The best pure boxers of that time are Brown, Leonard and Tunney and they look like Gatti next to Ezzard Charles... My god, Jersey Joe would counter the holy hell out of those bums Dempsey fought I just don't understand how you are unable to see how shitty these guys are... Firpo has to be the worst fighter I've ever seen, he makes Marcos Maidana look like Jose Napoles squared
Not well... In his case, I think it's too much of a size defecit to overcome... If Marciano was the same exact guy but maybe 20 pounds bigger, closer to Joe Frazier's size, I'd really like his chances, but I think it's hard for a 5'10 185 pound guy with a come-get-you style to deal with a guy who is a rock solid 6'3 220 and plenty strong himself
Norton would beat Dempsey or Marciano, with Marciano being the more difficult opponent. Norton would steamroll Dempsey.
