Leonard vs Floyd at 147... with one important caveat...

Not imporant. Floyd have cars.

 

Vernon Forrest.

Takes Mosley's best punches for 24 rounds but is stopped by Mayorga. Spinks...takes mayorga's best punches but is stopped by Judah. Mayweather takes Judah's best punches.

What say you about all of that?

The odd shit happens in boxing, hut-to-the-Hut...you can't create an entire doctrine out of one isolated occurrence. Floyd has consistently shown a strong chin over the course of his career and Leonard was not a true puncher. Floyd is no Floyd Snr or Dave Boy Green.

 

Where have I said that floyd's chin was poor? That's the 2nd time in this thread youve argued against something ive never said!

I should cut ya! I should cut ya so bad, you'd wish I never cut ya so bad

 

You've never directly said that Floyd's chin is poor...and truthfully you've never implied that it was "poor" but you've implied that he's shown enough vulnerability to suggest that a Leonard KO loss Is more than just a remote possibility.

I'm saying that Floyd hasn't shown any consistent vulnerability to suggest that he'd be KO'd by a guy like Leonard who wasn't, quite frankly, a dangerous puncher. Leonard was dangerous to guys that either had poor chins or poor stamina or poor defense. Floyd doesn't fall into any of those categories.

In fact, statistically, at least, Floyd's chin is actually solid, considering that he's never suffered an official KD from a punch. Plus, logically, if he has fought guys like De La Hoya, Castillo, Corrales, Judah, Canelo, Cotto, Pacquiao and Mosley without ever going down or being in danger of being stopped....there must be a good reason for that.

 

Sure, and part of the reason is that he's got a solid chin. Another part was that he was able to beat all those guys fighting safety first because he was much better than them (the versions he fought).

you're simply underestimating how massively superior leonard is to anyone floyd has ever shared a ring with. You'll deny that you are but you are.

 

Yeah but even if Leonard is "hugely superior" to anyone Floyd has fought, that doesn't automatically dictate that he'd beat Floyd let alone knock him out. You know this.

Frazier was "hugely superior" to anyone Foreman had fought before he faced Frazier. Liston was "hugely superior" to anyone Ali had fought prior to facing Liston. The list goes on and on and on and on. You CANNOT use that as any argument to suggest an outcome.

 

Leonard by KO isnt even my pick let alone an automatic one!:: It's you saying something is certain, not me; I'm just pointing out that the basis for your certainty is totally flimsy

 

There's no basis for suggesting that in 50 tries Leonard is certain to KO him at least once, either. My point is that there's more evidence to suggest Floyd never gets KOd by Leonard than to suggest that Leonard is guaranteed to KO him in 50 fights.

Do you think Roy Jones would KO Hagler once in 50 fights?

 

But how many guys with that combination of speed and power did Floyd fight?

Floyd is an all timer make no mistake, but Leonard was very capable of hurting him badly with his own combination of speed and power.

Could Floyd survive? Sure. But I think it's no guarantee.

 

As I said before, Ray Leonard's power has gone up incrementally every year since his retirement.

I was a HUGE Leonard fan back in the day and as such I knew eveeything about his style and abilities. I knew then that although he had a decent punch...it wasn't a one shot power level punch. Leonard stopped people on accumulation of punishment, not with power. Look at his fight with Floyd Senior for example. He hit Snr with every punch including the kitchen sink for 10 rounds and Snr was still on his feet at the time of the stoppage. This is typical of Leonard stoppages: accumulation. So, with that in mind, how the hell is he going to stop Floyd Mayweather Jnr...when Jnr doesn't take punishment due to his defense, movement and ring generalship.....reduces his opponent's output because of his elusiveness and counter punching...AND has a solid chin to boot?

What I'm saying is that logically, one cannot predict a Leonard KO in this matchup.

 

Floyd isn't hagler, that's the point. The guy took a literal handlful of flush shots from guys with power anywhere near Leonard's and his legs buckled twice. That's the relevant sample, not '50 fights'.

to answer your question tho, in 50 reruns i think Jones definitely gets him, aye.

 

Leonard's legs buckled in the 2nd round against Duran. Correct? There have been MANY Welterweights and Jnr Middleweights that hit harder than Duran did at 147lbs. Would you suggest that all of those guys (De La Hoya, Trinidad, Hearns, Curry, Breland etc) would have stopped Leonard if they hurt him?

 

yeah, he's totally humiliating himself in that thread

 

If it's 1981 in the lead up to the Hearns fight then I'd have said Hearns by ko was certainly a possibility based on what we'd seen so far. But then Ray took more hard welterweight shots in that fight than floyd took in his career so we know more than we did after the duran fight or than we do about floyd and can consequently have a higher degree of confidence.

but that's what it is- degrees of confidence in our inferences based on the sample sizes we have available. You just used the word 'all' again as if ive expressed certainty. Stop it or I'll cut ya!!

 

Cool hut my boy. I just think that 49 fights, 20 years and 30 championship fights in 5 weight classes is a large enough sample size

 

Given floyd's comp and how few flush shot he took, that's like including the time cars spend parked in the fecking garage in estimating the risk of car crashes per motorway trip.

 

There's a reason why he took very few flush shots.

 

Because he fought in an incredibly safety first manner against a bunch of also rans and old men?

 

I put Mayweather very high H2H from 130-140. I think he's a tough, competitive fight for anyone. I don't think he's quite the same above 140, and Leonard was one of the best fighters ever during his peak.

Leonard wins a clear decision, maybe 9-3 or so and scores a KD. Floyd would indeed make Leonard miss a lot, as he did everyone. Unfortunately I don't see him throwing enough to win those rounds despite that.

 

Yes there is: low calibre of opposition.

Leonard would drop Mayweather...not sure he'd stop him though.













No wait, he'd stop him, late.

 

Anyone who picks Leonard by stoppage over Floyd, doesn't know the sport. Of course in boxing anything can happen...for example, it's technically possible for Bernard Hopkins to have stopped Hagler. However that wouldn't be an intelligent pick based on what we know...since Hagler had never been legitimately dropped before let alone close to being stopped and Bernard wasn't a HUGE puncher. Same with what we know of Leonard and Floyd; Leonard not being a dynamite puncher and typically winning by accumulation of punishment, and Floyd hardly getting hit, drastically reducing his opponents usual punch output and having a pretty solid chin himself...you can't create a logical argument for a Leonard stoppage.

It's nonsense.

 

Leonard would be the hardest puncher Floyd fought.

 

and very high HGH from 147-154 ?

 

No.

 

Absolutely he got carz and money.
That's got to be included with every Floyd thread.

 

Easily yes.

 

Nonsense. If you're saying Leonard hit easily harder than De La Hoya, for example, then you are putting his power in the Trinidad ballpark.

If people think that then continuing this discussion is pointless.

Like I keep saying....in time Leonard's power has gone up considerably. In another ten years he would have Hearns power

 

Leonard hit harder than De La Hoya, Mosley, and Pacquiao.

I doubt the likes of Trinidad, Quartey, Castillejo, and old Camacho go the distance with Leonard. And I doubt Oscar puts away the likes of Benitez and Hearns.

I would wager Leonard to also put away the likes of Vargas and Carr in much more devastating fashion than Oscar did.

Oscar's power is what was always overrated. It was always based on the Quartey fight at 147, despite hitting Ike with everything but the kitchen sink and being unable to put him away. Leonard would put him away.

 

Puerto Rock....sigh

Where do I begin?

Leonard didn't stop Benitez based on power, it was accumulation of punishment. Hearns didn't stop Benitez from my recollection, so based on your logic I guess you're saying that Leonard hit harder than Hearns too?

You must as yourself: How many times has Leonard dropped a person with one punch? Then ask yourself who these guys were.

De La Hoya absolutely hit harder than Leonard. There's no doubt about it. Leonard wasn't a big puncher even by his own admission. Before the Hagler fight he was quoted as saying: "I'm not known as a big puncher....". How many punchers say that about themselves? Answer..none. He wasn't a puncher. He wasn't featherfisted of course, but he wasn't a banger. Oscar was a puncher. Judah was a puncher. Pacquiao was a puncher...even at 147lbs. Canelo undoubtedly hit harder than Leonard with single shots also. Don't confuse being the better fighter with having more power.

Leonard was an accumulation puncher. Hearns didn't have the best chin and Leonard hit him with everything for 14 rounds before he wilted. IF guys like De La Hoya couldn't stop Hearns, it's not because they didn't hit as hard as Leonard, it's because they would not be willing to or be able to take the same punches from hearns to hang in their long enough to take him out down the stretch. Power has little to do with this. For example: Frazier couldn't KO Foreman, Norton couldn't KO Foreman...but Ali did. Did Ali punch harder than both Frazier and Foreman? Obviously not. However, IF Oscar would have been able to take Hearns' punches he would have certainly been able to hurt Hearns far worse than Leonard did. Oscar hit harder than Leonard with single shots.

PR....you're coming at me with primordial logic. You're better than that bro.

As for whether Trinidad, Quartey and others would have lasted the distance with Leonard....it's all conjecture and we shall never know. personally, I think Trinidad and Quartey would have ABSOLUTELY lasted the distance with Leonard. I don't see why not. Certainly over 12 rounds. Trinidad is harder to stop than Hearns IMO: better stamina, better recuperation. Also although Hearns hit harder...Trinidad would be more devastating in a phone booth firefight due to his two-fisted power and pinpoint economical attack. However...we can never truly prove all of that, so it's conjecture.

 

Leonard was a more dangerous puncher than Oscar at 147 and above.

Oscar probably hit harder with a single left hook, but Leonard was a more effective puncher because unlike Oscar, he could hit with both hands, and his variety of punches was WAAAYYYYY above Oscar's.