Roy Fights Again Tomorrow.

Floyd had More OPPORTUNITY to Accomplish More...Considerably More BIG Fight "Names" from 130-154, than the Weights Roy Fought @...

Roy was Clearly More Talented and Wins 8 Out of 10 Head to Head, in REED'S Opinion...




REED

 

That's the case for damn near every fighter.

Here's a bit of truth...if Roy were around now with social media and with the things he was able to do in the ring I think he'd be on par with what Mayweather's making now. I said it earlier in this thread that Floyd's fights are nothing like he talks.

Roy might not have been the biggest talker but with some of the things he did in the ring he would have drawn in more people with that than floyd's boring ass fights.

 

Roys chicken and turtle fighting could have got him the Vick treatment, mind. Especially with that stuff being blown up by social media. All Floyd ever did was beat a ho, HOW TRILL IS DAT....

 

Roy in his prime was better than Floyd and far more compelling to watch.

 

except Floyd was the champ at 130 lb and defended his title several times.. there's NO comparison. there was talk of floyd dropping down to fight naseem hamed at 126, that didn't happen either. also, again, floyd did not win some paper belt at 154 then drop back down, as rjj did at heavyweight.

I think this was the case when he first moved up, perhaps, but he filled into light heavy as he went on. He was definitely at his best at 168 lb, easily the greatest 168 lb fighter of all time. But the guy was 5'11," that's not really that short for a light heavy.

Yeah, but the thing is that a) Baldomir did actually hold the lineal title, and Ruiz didn't, b) he also fought Zab Judah, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, Victor Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, Canelo, and Maidana x2. Not all of them killers.. but all of them welters, or junior middles even.

I wasn't criticizing the Toney win bro, I was saying it was impressive whether Toney was "weight drained or not weight drained..," because people make that excuse for the Toney fight. But let's be real, Toney was a damn good fighter, and for a young RJJ to totally, thoroughly outclass him like that was impressive as hell.

I'm not saying he fought nobody.. my only point was that Floyd & Pac have the far superior resumes

130 lb version of Floyd? 126 lb version of Pac? I dunno about that.

Yeah, but Roy's athleticism blew all of those guys out of the water.

 

Call me crazy but p4p Floyd at 130 or 135 vs a prime Roy Jones is Jones vs. Toney II.

Roy would never have trouble with that shoulder roll style for two main reasons:

1. he'd have the handspeed advantage vs nearly any fighter in history

2. (and most importantly) Jones was one of the few fighters who could also step around to his right to the blind spot for that style. When Floyd (or Toney for that manner) popped up from their crouch position Roy's right there waiting to unload shots. Thus forcing each guy into a more defensive posture and limiting their punch output.

As we saw with Tarver, southpaws with power was Roy's kryptonite. Manny would have a better shot at beating prime Roy than Mayweather.

Lastly, the "talk" of Floyd fighting Hamed was from Floyd...no one else. I forget which fight it was after but Floyd said he'd fight Hamed at a catchweight of 128. There wasn't any serious discussion about the fight taking place.

 

Roy had the left hook to defeat that shoulder shit.

 

Of course Naz didn't want to see Floyd, but it was more than just Floyd talking about that fight back then. A lot of boxing fans (American ones) were itching to see Floyd get in the ring with Hamed & beat his ass.

I agree Pac would have a better chance than Floyd at beating RJJ, which is why I said a 168 lb Pac in my first post on the matter. But Floyd, especially the 130-140 lb version, is not only much quicker, but a much more versatile and complete fighter than Toney was. He could fight at any range, and did not rely exclusively on the shoulder roll.

 

Forgot to add...

Roy vs Manny would have been one for the ages. One of those guys would have gotten knocked out. Roy would jump on you, get in your ass just enough for you to stop trying to win then he'd take his foot off the pedal. Manny wouldn't stop trying thus forcing Roy to fight every moment the fight lasted.

Roy vs Floyd would have eventually come down to a posing contest when Floyd went into his defensive shell.

 

Yeah but give Floyd this much- he has shell to go into. Most guys don't learn that shell.

 

[/URL][/IMG]


I took this the night Mayweather fought Phillip N'Dou (JMM vs Smoke Gainer was on the undercard). This was the week before Roy fought Tarver the first time.

Finally got Roy to sign my picture.

 

I agree with pretty much all this.

Though I think Floyd is the historically greater fighter, and more skilled, I can imagine Jones beating him clearly. Just too fucking fast for Floyd to outthink him and anticipate him. Too fast and unpredictable.

And yeah, Jones Vs Pacquiao would be an amazing fight. Both super fast, agile punchers, with unpredictable styles.

Jones is even faster and more agile, power even I reckon, Pacquiao more active, and a southpaw. Might depend on how good a prime Jones's chin really was, seeing as it's somewhat unknown.

BTW could you expand on what you mean about Jones and the shoulder roll blind spot?

 

I think Floyd would work Jones out, frankly.

 

Certainly...

Watch the highlights from Jones vs Toney as an illustration of what I'm talking about regarding how Roy handles the shoulder roll. When Toney comes up from his crouch Jones steps to his (Roy's) right to shoot the left hook rather than posing in front of James to shoot the right hand. I'm sure you're familiar with the "knockdown" Jones had on Toney...that's a classic illustration of what I meant. James tries to get out of the crouch but Jones isn't in front of him, he's off to the side throwing left hooks.

Most guys throw a straight right hand at Floyd which he can pick off with his shoulder then counter back with his own right hand. By stepping around to the blind spot then shooting the left hook Toney's moving into the shot as he comes out of his crouch. That's just one way to get out that style. It's too tempting to fire at what you think is an opening when it's really a trap.

Add in Roy's handspeed, Floyd wouldn't look to counter...he'd look to cover up.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ps0_GyuDisk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

 

Good Shit, Muzse....




REED:clapagain:

 

AGAIN, YOU Brought Up "Actual Bodyweight"...Roy Jones DID Fight as LOW as '54...Did Floyd EVER Fight as LOW as '26???...

5'11 is an AVERAGE Height @ Best, for a Lightheavy...Again, in the Vast Majority of his Lightheavy Bouts, Roy Jones was the SHORTER, SLIGHTER Man...He was TALLER than Griffin/Johnson and BIGGER than Johnson...But In EVER OTHER Lightheavy Bout, Roy was @ a Size DISadvantage...That's a FACT...

Baldomir was Still a BUM, Bro...Winning the Lineal Title from a Disinterested Zab Judah, Doesn't Alter That...If the Zab that Faced Floyd, Faced Baldomir, we NEVER Would've Heard of the Guy...REED's Point is, a Floyd Fan Really CAN'T Talk Shit about Ruiz, when Baldomir is There Staining Floyd's Ledger...Floyd DIDN'T Give Away 33lbs to Baldomir OR Anybody Else, for that Matter...

DeLa was CLEARLY Past his Prime, Hatton & Marquez MOVED UP to Face Floyd...Ortiz, Maidana and Guerrero had Only RECENTLY Moved Up to '47, when they Faced Floyd...Mosley was Seen to Be on the Downside of his Career & had Rejuvenated Himself by Virtue of the Margarita Beatdown...& Canelo was Made to Shrink DOWN in Weight...

Going the "Garbageman/Cop" Route w/Roy's Resume is a Decade Old, Messageboard Party Trick...But Again, ANY Resume Can Be Nitpicked...




REED:mj:

 

That's another thing, Floyd's ring IQ is leagues above Roy's.

 

Leagues Above???:l3:...

Only if you're Of the Opinion Roy was JUST an Athlete in the Ring...

While Floyd has the Better RESUME, Roy Jones Squared Off w/a Higher Variance of STYLES...To Offset as Many Styles as Roy Did, in his Prime, Takes a HIGH Ring IQ...




REED:mj:

 

Good point, I see exactly what you mean, Toney didn't see those lead left hooks coming from the position he threw them.

 

Fighter's IQ in the ring is a complex thing, especially when we talk about Roy. The thing is, he usually didn't need it because he was so much better anyway. That of course doesn't mean that he didn't have it either. The same with his chin and heart: for long we just didn't know since Jones was such a unique fighter

 

Things like the Toney clip prove that Jones wasn't without intelligence, however

 

Stupidest commentary in history.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/la_4_Ys_v68?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Roy Jones missed a golden opportunity in 2003. After winning the WBA title from Ruiz in 2003, the Chris Byrd fight was available to him. It would've been a WBA/IBF unification match and Byrd was with Don King which made it easy for Roy, promotion-wise. Instead, he decided to cut off all the muscle he had gained in order to fight chump Tarver in a fight nobody cared about seeing.

 

Byrd was an Option, but What Roy REALLY Wanted was a Bout w/Evander Holyfield, who Elected to Face James Toney Instead, for Less Money....


Coming Off the Heels of Roy-Ruiz, Roy-Holyfield Would've Been HUGE...Roy Even MAINTAINED his Newly Developed Heavyweight Physique & Muscle, Thinking that'd Be his Next Fight...Which Made it That Much HARDER, when he Had to Drop 25lbs of Muscle, for the Tarver Fight....

If REED Could Turn Back the Hands of Time...???



REED:bangh:

 

Why, did you force Roy to take the Tarver fight?????

 

Moving down and re-gaining the alphabet soup belts at LHW enhances Roy's legacy

 

I actually feel like Roy should have fought Lewis and retired.

EVERYBODY would have expected him to get KO'd. And he would have gotten KO'd, but it wouldn't have affected his legacy at all. In fact, it probably would have enhanced his legacy due to the risk.

And if by some minor miracle he could have beaten old Lewis, he'd have gone down as a top 3-5 atg. Probably even the GOAT.

 

Roy could've been seriously hurt against Lewis. As we came to find out later how fragile Roy's chin was, could you imagine if Lennox levelled him with a right cross square on the jaw?

 

True. I think though that Roy/Byrd in a WBA/IBF unification basically sold itself because of the importance of unification and it was perhaps the safest fight in the entire heavyweight division that Roy could've taken. Byrd was nowhere near a heavyweight level puncher.
Imagine the bargaining power Roy would've had while being the WBA/IBF champion?
I mean it's obvious that Roy was also a big piece of sh*t on the negotiation table with the kind of deal that he offered Ruiz which Ruiz accepted for whatever reason. The deal was so ridiculous that Ruiz had no guarantee that he'd be receiving any money at all for the fight. He was promised a cut of PPVs depending on if the PPVs hit over 300K buys or so ::

 

No, but Floyd was the legit champ at 130 & defended his title multiple times. We already went over this; having a couple fights at a weight early in your career doesn't mean shit. Neither does moving up to win a paper title and then immediately moving back down. Floyd has legitimately been the man in 5 divisions, Roy was only ever legitimately the man in 3 of them.

If he was at a size disadvantage, it wasn't significant. Again, he typically weighed in the 180s on fight night. Small-ish for a light heavy, but not tiny. Floyd was 148 on fight night against De La Hoya. What was Pac against Margarito? Those are size disadvantages.

Here's the thing, Baldomir wasn't the ONLY welterweight Floyd fought. Ruiz was not only Roy's crowning achievement at heavy, it was his only achievement at heavy. The Judah you mentioned showing up against Floyd was light years better than Ruiz. The 33 lbs thing is an exaggeration too, I think in my mind.. it was probably more like 25.

Hatton was a bigger man than Floyd. Floyd was at 147 because he doesn't like to drain, Hatton drained to make 140 and only drained less to make 147. He weighed more than Floyd did on fight night. DLH looked sharp as ever beating the shit out of Mayorga.. he was past his best, but not shot, and a MUCH bigger man. Also, he was a much, much better fighter than say, John Ruiz. No comparison. Ortiz and Maidana are also bigger than Floyd, Guerrero is the only guy who's comparable in size. Shane, again, had beaten the shit out of Margarito, who was seen as a killer at the time. People were saying Floyd was ducking him and scared to fight him. Remember that? Canelo shrunk down 2 lb because he made the offer to to make the fight. Do you think coming in 2 lb heavier at the weigh-in would've made a difference? He got thoroughly schooled.

Resume nitpicking is when you denigrate the names on a resume because of circumstances.. eg, Manny's win over DLH doesn't mean shit because he came down to 147 & was shot, Roy's win over Toney means less because he was drained, Floyd's win over Judah means less coz he'd just lost to Baldomir.. but many of the names on Roy's resume can't be torn down because they were never shit to begin with, that's what he's criticized for

To be honest bro, I was a fan of RJJ and would always show casual fans his highlights.. I'm trolling a bit with the "Harlem Globetrotters" shit, I don't think he was JUST an athlete. But Floyd has an exceptional ring IQ, and as his athleticism declines, he's able to rely on it more & more against physically bigger, stronger, faster fighters

If Lewis landed a clean right hand, Roy might've literally died