Andre Ward is the P4P #2

So he (Froch) lost 8-4, at worst. Ward hardly 'absolutely breezed' that fight. 8-4 (at worst) fights are not 'absolutely breezed'. Which is what I said. Or do world title fights only last eight rounds nowadays?

MTF

 

That's fair(er)

MTF

 

He breezed it. Every round he decided to win, he won. And 8-4 is generous, really.

 

That's a generous perception of the championship rounds in that fight. Very generous.

MTF

 

I gave him 9 and 12 and I gave him a share of one of the earlier rounds. I think that was it. :dunno:

 

He won three of the last four. Can't remember exactly but I'm fairly sure he won the 11th comfortably (as well as nine and twelve).

MTF

 

I had it 118-110 for Ward. Never thought Froch was in the fight all that much to be honest. I like Froch and hate Ward too, but I'm the least biased poster here.

 

You're insane! :notallthere:

Floyd/Manny/Martinez are an impenetrable top 3 until one of them is beaten.

 

I wouldnt even have Martinez top 5

 

You've always had a strange notion of what P4P best means.

Wlad, as a heavyweight, is far more vulnerable than Floyd is as a Welterweight. If Wlad were to fight Vitali, most would pick Vitali to win. There's no Welter that anyone except the very few would pick over Floyd...and the very few would pick Pacquiao. Floyd has been dominant from teh beginning of his career...Wlad has stoppage losses to Purrity, Sanders and Byrd's cousin (I always forget that fucker's name)

I'm as big a fan of Wlad as you are, always have been on his bandwagon, but you know as well as I that he's not as good a fighter as Floyd is....kilo for kilo (I think P4P throws you off...so let's use metric instead ::)

 

ok...forget Martinez...Floyd/Manny and then the rest. I mean let's all be reasonable men.

 

ATM, yeah. We'll see how Manny looks against Bradley, though. :crafty:

 

What happened to

from the other thread, changing the word inside "s.

Once more:

p4p = the best fighter compared to his size, right?

Two possible approaches: 1) who beats whom if they are the same size (impossible to compare fair and thus idiotic) 2) Who is the best compared to the fighters of same size (plausible approach). Best fighter includes everything: technique, power, stamina, reach, everything that affect's fighter's success

So, how can you be the best compared to other fighters in your division? By beating up many/most of them and looking good in progress. Also what affects it is how strong or weak the division is, even though the fighter can't change that himself.

So why isn't PBF the #1 p4p, in my opinion? Because he has not proven that he is the best of his OWN division, much less dominates it. For example Fightnews ranks him at #2 there, and also he has two victories over top-10 contenders from the past five years or so.

Wlad IMHO ranks above him because he has beaten all available contenders (Vitali is not available for him) for seven years, hardly losing more than three rounds in any fight. He isn't p4p #1 either because his division is a weak one. Vitali isn't because his record is weak.

It matters not that Floyd has moved up divisions: he can't get below 147 and thus he is judged there. Just the same way Manny is judged at 140 lbs and above: if he is too weak to compete there, he can't be the best p4p anymore (so far it doesn't look like that).

So, PBF can be the most talented, most potential, most skillful, most hot fighter p4p, but the best he is not until he proves it. Again, by beating the best guys of his own size that are available.

What part of this is unfair?

 

Imagine Floyd had been KOd by guys the level of Seb Lujan & Randal Bailley before going on a winning streak. He wouldn't be p4p number 1.

 

Yeah, but you thought DeGale beat Groves, which shows fairly conclusively that you can't score fights...

MTF :nana:

 

Ranking heavyweights p4p is super-difficult for one reason - there's no divisions around them to contextualize them. Floyd can fight, or fight opponents who in turn fight guys in the division above and below, who in turn fight guys above and below & so on. That gives you a much better picture.

 

I have no problem ranking heavyweights.

For example in 1988, Mike Tyson was undoubtedly P4P#1 (honorable mention to JCC)

Ali in the 60s was P4P also.

It's about proven dominance over peers.

Floyd has proven his dominance over his peers and has in the process of this proven his abilities.

Wlad doesn't match up well with Floyd when comparing abilities for their size.

 

Oh you went there!

::

I was hardly alone with that one. With Froch-Ward he was never in the fight, and I don't have a bad word to say about Carl, I was rooting for the guy.

 

They are both hard to hit, but Floyd looks better doing it.

They are both offensively proficient, but Wlad looks better doing it and hits harder.

Neither loses rounds very often, but Wlad loses fewer.

They both fight everyone you would expect them to, except Floyd.

 

It's not their fault, but the fact that Wlad and Vitali have not fought the next best guy out there (eachother) counts against them historically.

 

If Ward were knocking fools out left and right, I may consider it. Although very skilled, he just isnt winnning as dominantly as Pac. "Save for the Marquez fight of course"

 

Well Manny did lose to two guys before his winning streak and he became #1. I don't know if things that happened eight years ago should affect the status that much if the fighter in question has proven something else after that

 

Ward is Quite a Ways from Floyd & Pac, in Lb for Lb Talks...He's in the Discussion w/Martinez & Donaire, However...

So @ BEST, Ward is # 3 Lb for Lb...REED Still Rates Martinez Higher @ the Moment, but a Decisive Win Over Bute (ASSuming he Gets By Froch), Coupled w/Another Less than Stellar Outing by Martinez, would Bump Ward Up...

Donaire's a Solid 4 or 5, but in DIRE Need of an Impressive Performance...



REED:hammert:

 

Ugo Knows WhattheFUCK it Means, he just Likes to B Cute & Convenient w/the Criteria, to Suit his Euro Brethren...



REED:shit:

 

Wlad's losses were down to a deficiency we know still exists (chin).

 

Manny really lost his last fight but he shouldn't be lower than 6.

 

Instead of a personal attack, counter my post where I explained my take, if you can.

My problem with Floyd is the lack of fights lately, and not even his nationality can totally make up for it

 

In two weeks, both guys will have fought twice since 2010.

 

I've found a thread where Calzaghe at #2 after his Hopkins win (one fight later and not exactly any more impressive) is not uncommon:

http://www.fightbeat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28501&highlight=calzaghe+p4p

Rainmaker: #4, but Hopkins at #1 after Calz had just beaten him.

Slystaff: #1

Illuminati: #2

Mitchell Kane: #1

D Man: #2

TKO: #1

jaws1216: #2

rjjp4p#1: #2

Double L: #4

Mexican Wedding Shirt: #1

bpg: #1

whiskey: #2

 

Glad to see I wasn't caught up that mass psychosis